(sorry, send it too soon, re-sending)
What I find concerning is the idea that a biased subset
of our users would
be categorically ignored for this type of evaluation. If >you
agree with
me that such evaluation is valuable to our users, I think you ought to also
find such categorical exclusions >concerning.
Dan has mentioned a possible workarround which would be the obvious long
standing practice of "do not pay attention what IE10 is saying" but Aaron
please note that client side EL -as it is right now- excludes ALL browsers
with faulty or non javascript support plus everyone with javascript turned
of. This is certainly a "categorical exclusion" and one we know is present
in our dataset from the very beginning. I can run the numbers but I
wouldn't be surprised if this % of users with no js-support is higher than
the total of % IE10 users put together. More so with increasing mobile
traffic. Now, it's a small number for sure, so as Leila mentions we can
find the answer to many questions with out actually pooling every single
user.
However I do not think this caveats are a problem, as they are know. We
know, for example, that EL might not be that useful when trying to see in
detail behavior of users that use, say, "opera mini" (made up example)
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 9:10 AM, Nuria Ruiz <nuria(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
What I find
concerning is the idea that a biased subset of our users
would be categorically
ignored for this type of evaluation. If >you agree
with me that such evaluation is valuable to our users, I think you ought to
also find such categorical exclusions >concerning.
Dan has mentioned a possible workarround which would be the obvious long
standing practice of "do not pay attention what IE10 is saying" but Aaron
please note that client side EL -as it is right now- excludes ALL browsers
with faulty or non javascript support plus everyone with javascript turned
of. This is certainly a "categorical exclusion" and one we know is present
in our dataset from the very beginning. I can run the numbers but I
wouldn't be surprised if this % of users is higher than the total of % IE10
users put together. However, I do not think is a problem we know data
comes with this caveats and we know for example that EL might not be that
useful when trying to see in detail behavior of users that use opera mini,
say. (made up example)
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 9:55 PM, Aaron Halfaker <ahalfaker(a)wikimedia.org>
wrote:
Ah. I think I see the confusion. When I
referred to knowing whether the
software "works" for a group of users or not, I'm talking about something
more than technical requirements. Even software that is technically
functioning can fail to serve its intended purpose. The work we do with
field studies surfaces this. That's the point I was trying to make with
the anon example.
What I find concerning is the idea that a biased subset of our users
would be categorically ignored for this type of evaluation. If you agree
with me that such evaluation is valuable to our users, I think you ought to
also find such categorical exclusions concerning.
On Jan 15, 2015 6:38 PM, "Aaron Halfaker" <ahalfaker(a)wikimedia.org>
wrote:
Christian, I appreciate your response, but if you
only say how I
misunderstood you without suggestion how I might have understood you
better, I don't see a way to continue the conversation.
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 2:48 PM, Christian Aistleitner <
christian(a)quelltextlich.at> wrote:
Hi Aaron,
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 09:23:13AM -0600, Aaron Halfaker wrote:
> You hold
> a minority opinion that testing software in the field is unnecessary.
Hey, that's not what I've said :-)
And this mis-interpretation of my previous email pretty much makes the
rest of your argument moot from my point of view.
> We're merely disagreeing about whether it is
> good to assume that DNT means [...]
And I respect that we have different opinions about DNT.
No doubt there.
> However, when you say that my work has no value, [...]
???
Again ... I think you're misreading my email.
I never said that your work has no value.
Have fun,
Christian
--
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Christian Aistleitner
Kefermarkterstrasze 6a/3 Email: christian(a)quelltextlich.at
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Fax: +43 7946 / 20 5 81
Homepage:
http://quelltextlich.at/
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