<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>The sequence reveals that no moderator is both monitoring this list and willing to respond to the request, and possibly the listserver is not working properly.<br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br><span></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>Yes, the user should be able to handle his own unsubscription and is being obtuse, repeating a message, insistently, to people who can't do anything about the situation, and perhaps not following instructions that come with every mail, or if he is, he is not requesting help, describing the specific problem encountered, he is merely demanding that
someone DO SOMETHING TO FIX THIS!<br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br><span></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>A common reason would be that the user no longer has access to an account for sending mail, but is still receiving mail to that account. If that is the case here, then Harry isn't telling anyone what the account is. The complete headers from a list mail to him would show what's happening. (Below, I figure out that this is not the case here. It's commonly a case with open mailing lists, this list is, however, closed.)<br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style:
normal;"><br><span></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>STOP and all that does absolutely nothing. The instructions below do say how to unsubscribe. One of Harry's mails seems to be a response to a mail from </span><a href="mailto:wikiversity-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org">wikiversity-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org</a> and it looks like the subject was not created as instructed for unsubscription.</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">If Harry tells us what he has done, and what happened, we will then know more specifically what to do about it. I'm not personally going to
file a complaint with the overall wikimedia.org listserver administration unless I can verify a problem. And they are quite likely, given the massive subscription lists, to ignore complaints written in all caps that don't provide adequate information.<br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div class="yui_3_2_0_18_134902181671452" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">To find out if the listserver is operating, I entered a number of commands through the web interface, which is *public*. I merely need enter the subscribed email address. The page is at <a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikiversity-l">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikiversity-l</a></div><div class="yui_3_2_0_18_134902181671452"
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div class="yui_3_2_0_18_134902181671452" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">On that page, in the "Wikiversity-l" subscribers section, after entering my subscribed email address, I pressed the "unsubscribe or edit options" button.</div><div class="yui_3_2_0_18_134902181671452" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div class="yui_3_2_0_18_134902181671452" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">I got a member options page acknowledging my email address as a subscriber, and one of the buttons was
unsubscribe. I pressed the unsubscribe button, and, after a few minutes' delay, I received a confirmation mail. If I had responded with no changes to that mail, I presume I'd have been unsubscribed. I'd forgotten my password, which is not needed for unsubscription, so I then pressed the password reminder button and my password was emailed to me. Using the password, I logged in to the member options page. There is also an immediate unsubscription option there (since they know it's you because you logged in with the password.)</div><div class="yui_3_2_0_18_134902181671452" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div class="yui_3_2_0_18_134902181671452" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">So I did the same, using the Harry address from the mails. I
then pressed an unsubscribe bottom, which, if Harry is a subscriber, would send him a confirmation mail, with instructions that, if followed carefully, will unsubscribe him. On the other hand, I tested this with a ridiculous subscription address. The interface does not reveal if the person is a subscriber or not.</div><div class="yui_3_2_0_18_134902181671452" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div class="yui_3_2_0_18_134902181671452" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">If Harry does not receive a mail, he can then strongly infer that he is not, under this email address, subscribed to the list. That, then, means that *nobody* can help him, unless he provides the subscription mailing address.</div><div class="yui_3_2_0_18_134902181671452"
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div class="yui_3_2_0_18_134902181671452" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">However, it is very likely that Harry is a subscriber, because the list will reject mails from non-subscribers. I just tested that. Harry's mails, from his gmail address, are not being held for moderator approval. (If a moderator has set automatic approval, it would go through, but he'd also be getting the message held for approval message. I've seen a moderator set up automatic bounce approval when the moderation didn't want to surrender control but also didn't have the time to actually manage the list.)<br></div><div class="yui_3_2_0_18_134902181671452" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family:
arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div class="yui_3_2_0_18_134902181671452" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">Harry, when you are in the middle of an amygdala hijack, you may not be able to respond to instructions clearly. See if you can do whatever you know to do to relax, have some tea or coffee, get to a place of calm, and then try unsubscribing, reading everything carefully. You may find that this fixes the interface, in a way that shouting doesn't.</div><div class="yui_3_2_0_18_134902181671452" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div class="yui_3_2_0_18_134902181671452" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color:
transparent; font-style: normal;">The amazing thing here is how long the hijack has lasted.</div><div class="yui_3_2_0_18_134902181671452" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div class="yui_3_2_0_18_134902181671452" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">Plus, I'm getting that we don't have a moderator who is regularly watching this list and ready to fix problems.<br></div><div class="yui_3_2_0_18_134902181671452" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div class="yui_3_2_0_18_134902181671452" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style:
normal;"><br></div><div class="yui_3_2_0_18_134902181671452" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div><br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <div style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Shujen Chang <i@blue.cat><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Mailing list for Wikiversity <wikiversity-l@lists.wikimedia.org> <br> <b><span style="font-weight:
bold;">Sent:</span></b> Sunday, September 30, 2012 8:28 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Wikiversity-l] Wikiversity-l Digest, Vol 58, Issue 4<br> </font> </div> <br>
<meta http-equiv="x-dns-prefetch-control" content="off"><div id="yiv1520881842">You can just unsubscribe this mail list, if you do not want to receive any letters from the mail list again.<br> </div><br></div> </div> </blockquote></div> </div></body></html>