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Daniel Mayer wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid20040223000423.89DC313843F@mail.wikimedia.org">Michael Snow
wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Well, you've had disagreements with at least two so far.
Though of course, lawyers frequently disagree with each
other, too. It's sort of an occupational requirement.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->Actually I agreed with and helped to defend most of Alex's positions -
including most of his views on using fair use materials in Wikipedia. Our only
major disagreement was the last one (which turned out to be a misunderstanding</pre>
</blockquote>
Many disagreements are really misunderstandings. Ours was to some
extent as well. It doesn't mean that we will always disagree any more
than you and Alex would. Points of agreement generate less
discussion--if I had agreed with you initially, I wouldn't have piped
up at all. Anyway, disagreement is not the same as disrespect, and you
have treated me respectfully throughout this discussion. I hope you
would say the same of me.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid20040223000423.89DC313843F@mail.wikimedia.org">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">We would have to make sure we mention the source
and the name of the author.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->Exactly! We have WAY too many images that don't have this type of information.
IMO, we should stop all uploads and launch a tagging effort. Once that is fully
underway a form should be added to the upload page that would force uploaders
to enter text into author, source, and license fields. I consider the current
situation to be untenable and dangerous to the long term viability to the
project. </pre>
</blockquote>
Now this, I agree with almost totally. I'm not sure it's necessary to
actually stop uploads completely--that feels really drastic, and
perhaps we could develop the upload form first and then go back and tag
the old images that predate the form.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid20040223000423.89DC313843F@mail.wikimedia.org">
<pre wrap="">To even have a chance of being considered fair, the use *must* give author
info, no?</pre>
</blockquote>
The way I read the Berne Convention, yes. Fair use law in the US
doesn't necessarily require attribution, because US copyright law
historically has shown less concern for the "moral rights" of authors.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid20040223000423.89DC313843F@mail.wikimedia.org">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I think this can pretty much resolve the issue for text, and
an argument can be made to apply it to images and sounds
as well.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->Yep. That is my IANAL interpretation. Has this been tested for non-text
content? </pre>
</blockquote>
I'm not aware if relying on Article 10 has even been tested in the
courts for text. As a practical matter, copyright holders often
calculate that it's not worth the effort to go after this kind of use.
The use may well be considered legitimate, and it tends to be on a
low-level scale anyway.<br>
<br>
--Michael Snow<br>
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