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<TITLE>Re:[Wikipedia-l] Helga Jonat on [[Berlin]] </TITLE>
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<P><FONT COLOR="#008000" FACE="Comic Sans MS">Regarding Mirwin's essay --</FONT>
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<P><FONT COLOR="#008000" FACE="Comic Sans MS">I generally agree with what you've said, mike. Just thought you should know that this has been going on for close to a year now. Wikipedians have left partially because they were too fed up with their time being wasted by Helga. In almost every case, one of us (often me) has broken down her work, explained where the problems are, and asked for sources and/or clarification of very specific points. We've also offered to help turn what she comes up with into effective English. Sometimes, we've put together essays on sources and use of documents that have made it into different articles. Other times, we've gone out and looked at her sources ourselves (they are often from highly biased minority opinion sites or books that are hard to find because they are incredibly outdated local histories in German), and found that either there was a fair body of criticism or that she'd quoted out of context. </FONT></P>
<P><FONT COLOR="#008000" FACE="Comic Sans MS">You are absolutely right about minority opinions -- as long as they are valid ones. Helga's views on the Heimatvertriebene are generally quite valid and need to be expressed (I would say it's analogous to the fight by Roma and gay activists have placed on their inclusion as victims of the Holocaust -- its only recently that any real research has been done on the topic, but as it comes to light, it is included in the mainstream). HOWEVER, she does nothing to help create a collegial atmosphere where we can add PROVABLE claims in a neutral POV. IMO, her irredentist views are pretty much insupportable -- not because they are not accepted by the mainstream, but because she is just wrong. Taken to an extreme, Helga's arguments could be used to prove that Iberia belongs to the Irish (choose a group of Celts) -- although she'd probably stop at the Visigoths, since they're Germans.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT COLOR="#008000" FACE="Comic Sans MS">Plus, she's accused other wikipedians of drinking too much (Michael Tinkler) and insulted me on many occasions, to which my fovourtite response is still from the much-missed Paul Drye "Pot. Kettle. Black."</FONT></P>
<P><FONT COLOR="#008000" FACE="Comic Sans MS">Jules</FONT>
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<P><FONT COLOR="#008080" FACE="Comic Sans MS">Regards, </FONT>
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<P><FONT COLOR="#008080" FACE="Comic Sans MS">Julie Hofmann Kemp </FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#008080" FACE="Comic Sans MS">253-638-1944</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR="#008080" FACE="Comic Sans MS">206-310-3461</FONT>
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