[Wikipedia-l] Be-x-old

Fri Mar 30 13:31:24 UTC 2007

Hoi!

We do the same in pms. What it takes is a good admin structure, though, one
capable to addres the edit wars that sometimes happen (because they do
happen, it's just inevitable). 

What IMHO they may do is to make up a group of people from both parties and
generate an internal ArbCom that will represent all basic trends and manage
to calm down the worst events. 

To get to that point they may simply try and meet in front of a beer a
couple of times and get to know each other personally (people who can look
into each other's face often have much less conflicts then people who just
exchange emails).

The weather is getting better in Kyiv, so I guess fishing will soon be a
good social option in Belarus', too. :) 

Berto 'd Sera
Personagi dl'ann 2006 per l'arvista american-a Time (tanme tuti vojaotri)
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1569514,00.html

-----Original Message-----
From: wikipedia-l-bounces at lists.wikimedia.org
[mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces at lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Alexander
Cajcyc
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 4:14 PM
To: GerardM
Cc: wikipedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Be-x-old

In that case a solution has already been found long ago, and the question is
purely a technical one: one and the same Wiki, but with articles separated
into "classical" and "official". As far as I know, this has already been
implemented in other Wikis (e.g. Serbian?). So why not just doing the same
with Belarusian Wikipedia?

czalex

-----Original Message-----
From: GerardM <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com>
To: "Alexander Cajcyc" <czalex at bk.ru>, wikipedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 15:03:43 +0200
Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Be-x-old

> 
> Hoi,
> There is no choice when it comes to the names of the projects. The
standard
> is explicit; a private label is indicated by an -x- at the right place in
> the label.
> 
> Having two projects is also something I would be against; it does not
bring
> collaboration, it does not bring NPOV. You have to get your act together
and
> history shows that you now have to compromise big time. It has been
> indicated that the actual differences are less than what you find in
English
> ... all the more reason to insist on collaboration.
> 
> Thanks,
>     GerardM
> 
> On 3/30/07, Alexander Cajcyc <czalex at bk.ru> wrote:
> >
> > Hi everybody
> >
> > I agree with Gerard that we must not deepen the conflict and hould find
a
> > solution that would satisfy all of us.
> >
> > Are we all, no matter the orthography, interested in the representation
of
> > Belarusian language in Wikipedia and in the usage of this tool for the
sake
> > of all Belarusian speakers no matter whether they prefer the classical
> > orthography or the official one? Yes, we all are. So let's find some
> > compromise.
> >
> > I propose to leave the official orthography wikipedia where it is now,
OK.
> >
> > But you just CAN'T allow the 6000 classical Belarusian Wiki articles to
> > get lost! The fact that the Belarusian Wiki was created as a Wiki in
> > Taraskievica is a illustrative example to that the classical orthography
has
> > an important place in Belarus now, especially amoung people who really
DO
> > speak the language on an every-day basis, while you can even see that
most
> > forum conversations in the official-orthography Wikipedia are being hold
> > in... Russian [what is not bad itself].
> >
> > So an ideal solution would be to rename be-x-old.wikipedia.org to, e.g.,
> > be-classic.wikipedia.org or bel.wikipedia.org and to open it for editing
> > so that it could coutinue its effective functioning.
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > czalex
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: GerardM <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com>
> > To: wikipedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> > Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 14:23:35 +0200
> > Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Be-x-old
> >
> > >
> > > Hoi,
> > > Please consider that if you have an option to work together, that you
> > have
> > > to talk. That you have to give and take. That you will always feel
that
> > you
> > > give more than what you get.
> > >
> > > There are two groups of people who have fought each other in a space
> > where
> > > such fights are not appreciated. Assertions have been made  about
"your"
> > > language, "your" orthography, by trash talking the "other" language /
> > > orthography. You do not get any sympathy in this way. When you want to
> > > achieve something, it will be more beneficial to be seen to cooperate
> > and to
> > > find some coexistence.
> > >
> > > When this coexistence is hard to get because of the enmity that has
been
> > > created in the past, it only means that you will have to give even
more.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >     Gerard
> > >
> > > On 3/30/07, Monk <monkbel at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > How can anybody say that Yury Tarasievich and his project is about
> > > > language, not about politics, after such a letter? No facts, just
> > > > insults and speculations.
> > > >
> > > > > You are an entity, yes, set out to destroy the existing Belarusian
> > > > > language and culture and replace it with your version -- okay,
your
> > > > > right. But get yourself your own blessed language code for that.
> > > > This speculation with such aggressive words doesn't help your case,
it
> > > > can only make your case worse. I don't even hope any more that you
> > > > understand that your outrageous insults are absurd. You just dig a
pit
> > > > for yourself by your own hands.
> > > >
> > > > > P.S.
> > > > > Some years ago I witnessed a creation of one of such sites you
call
> > > > > "proofs". So, there was 1 tech and 1 editor, who re-edited
> > everything
> > > > > incoming (like 90+% or even 99% in standard Belarusian and
Russian)
> > > > > into his flavour of "classic". It was politics. Thousands pages
(and
> > I
> > > > > mean real thousands, there was sort of 4800 or so) of pages.
And...
> > > > > grant money. I could add -- near to zero interest, excepting the
> > > > > indexing bots.
> > > > Another great example of lies. Where could they get any incoming in
> > > > "norm" if people just don't write in it?
> > > >
> > > > Monk.
> > > >
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> 
> 

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