I think, at the moment, it's best on focusing RMY to be a general Romani
Wikipedia. I presume in many ways the code RMY is better than ROM since it
doesn't confuse with Romanian (which for some reason uses "ron" as its
three
letter code). In any way, if there are problems with intelligibility, then a
new version of the Wikipedia can be made in the same way that nds-nl split
from nds, with the original "rmy" remaining as "Vlax Romany". But I
think
there is increasing work by Roma bodies to standardise the language, and all
the Roma bodies call the language "Romani", not differentiating between the
different variants (though, as Mark pointed out, there is a significant
degree of intelligiblity).
Another issue we are faced with is script. Alin (Desiphral) said that he
writes in Devanagari, and that the Devanagari script is the best
representative script for Romani, even though it's used to a lesser extent
officially than Latin. I think the best solution would be to have an
automatically-biscriptal Wikipedia. Currently, there are articles in both
Latin and Devanagari, but as long as there is no automatic conversion, the
system is clunky and requires duplication by hand.
Would it be possible to adapt the Serbian Cyrillic-->Latin script to work
for Latin-->Hindi? The conversion is 1-on-1 and quite conventional.
Another thing - the interwiki descriptor should be changed from "Romani" to
"Romani / रोमानी". I will file a bug report about this (this is the proper
procedure, is it not?)
Thanks,
Ronline
2006/3/26, Mark Williamson <node.ue(a)gmail.com>om>:
With a pluricentric language such as Romani, there is no realistic
hope of real linguistic regulation in the modern world.
Even languages which are "controlled" by specific countries such as
Spanish, French, German, or Portuguese, have had major problems in
aligning national standards.
Romani, on the other hand, is considered by linguists to be a family
of languages, rather than a single language, because the three main
dialect groups are not really mutually intelligible.
Here is a list of the words for "woman" in some Romani varieties:
džuvel -- welsh
manušňi -- sremski gurbet
dženi -- sinte
džuuli -- romungro
džuvli -- macedonian džambazi
manušňi -- lovara
džuuli -- latvian
źuvli -- kalderaš
manušňi -- gurvari
džuuli -- finnish
džuvli -- dolenjski
džuvli -- burgenland
manušňi -- banatiski gurbet
džuvi -- bugurdži
dźuvli -- crimean
rani -- east slovak
džuvli -- gurbet
žuvli -- hungarian vend
džuvli -- kosovo arli
džulî -- lithuanian
džuvli -- macedonian arli
dźuvlî -- north russian
romni -- sepečides
dženi -- sofia erli
žuvli -- ursari
With such differences as this in even such a basic word, it is
unrealistic to expect people to be able to understand each other,
without studying the so-called "unified romani" for years beforehand.
From what I've heard from Roma people, Unified
Romani is not really
wide-spread.
On the other hand, if we have separate Wikipedias for each Romani
variety, they will be able to reach all literate Roma.
Mark
On 25/03/06, Alin Dosoftei <desiphral(a)gmail.com> wrote:
By now the "Standard Romani" is a bit
in a ideal phase, with more
centers of
developement worlwide. Already there are some
differences in the way I
have
written and the way the other Romani user has
written, but this does
not
impede the mutual understanding. Personally I
don't have in my mind a
wiki
confined only to some specific patterns of the
Romani language picked
from
those disponible worldwide. Speakers of every
dialect would be welcomed
to
contribute to rom.wiki, and if there is standing
power to make wikis in
specific dialects, let them run. But for the beginning there is standing
power for a general Romani Wikipedia.
Also, the evolution of the standardized form, is not based only on Vlax
Romani. As I wrote in the English article abot the Romani language,
Romani
taught in schools from Romania has mostly the
pronunciation and grammar
style of the older non-Vlax dialects, considered closer to the original
language. The language used till now for the Romani Wikipedia is not
quite
Vlax, it does not stand for a Vlax Wikipedia.
Desiphral
On 3/25/06, Mark Williamson <node.ue(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The comparison to Kurdish isn't exactly valid -- the Kurdish Wikipedia
> doesn't use a single "standard form", but rather has separate
> "sections" for each dialect, beccause quite simply there is no
> Standard Kuridsh.
>
> Mark
>
> On 25/03/06, Alin Dosoftei <desiphral(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > Have a look at the debate for the test Romani Wikipedia, at my last
> comment:
> >
> >
>
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Vlax_Romany/Discu…
> >
> > My point is that if it is will to make Wikipedias in other dialects,
> it's
> > OK, but I don't think this is an impediment to have one for the
standard
> > form.
> >
> > On 3/25/06, Mark Williamson <node.ue(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > As far as I know, although there is a "standard romani", it
doesn't
> > > totally bridge all Romani
languages as it intends (it is
apparently
> > > based mostly on Kalderash), and is
not intelligible to diverse
> > > varieties such as Ursari, Sinte, or Baltic.
> > >
> > > I don't think it's right for any single language to claim to be
"*the*
> > > Romani language", I think
rom.wp should be a portal.
> > >
> > > mark
> > >
> > > On 25/03/06, Alin Dosoftei <desiphral(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Thank you!
> > > >
> > > > But the proposed code name is rom. not rmy. which is only for
the
> Vlax
> > > > Romani dialect. Is it because I forgot to change it at the Meta
page
> for
> > > > requests? Vlax was the first proposal but then the test changed
to
> > > Standard
> > > > Romani and I made the changes from rmy to rom wherever I found
the
> older
> > > > code.
> > > >
> > > > Also in English it is favoured the spelling Romani instead of
> Romany,
> > > > because this is the way the other Indo-Aryan languages are
spelled:
> > > Hindi,
> > > > Bengali, Marathi, Kashmiri etc. The Romani dialects are spelled
also
> > > like
> > > > this: Drindari, Erli, Jambashi etc. and even the dialects of
other
> > > languages
> > > > spoken by Roma (with only Romani vocabulary) like Pogadi.
*Romany*
> look
> > > > awkward together with other Indo-Aryan languages.
> > > >
> > > > On 3/25/06, Wikipedia Romania (Ronline)
<rowikipedia(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Just a question - none of the Wikipedias so far seem to have a
> > > localised
> > > > > interface. The Romany Wikipedia (code RMY) has a nearly
> > > fully-translated
> > > > > localisation file at:
> > > > >
> > > > >
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/LanguageRom.php
> > > > >
> > > > > (This file still contains some Romanian-language fragments)
> > > > >
> > > > > Once this file is fully translated, how is it possible to
update
> the
> > > > > interface?
> > > > > Neither me nor the native Romani user, Desiphral, know how to
use
> the
> > > CVS
> > > > > system.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Ronline
> > > > >
> > > > > 2006/3/25, Servien Ilaino <servien(a)gmail.com>om>:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > YEEEAAAH!! Finaly!! :D
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Serv
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2006/3/25, Wikipedia Romania (Ronline) <
rowikipedia(a)gmail.com>gt;:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > WOO HOO!!!
> > > > > > > Thanks so much for that!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2006/3/25, Jens Frank < JeLuF(a)gmx.de>gt;:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > the following wikipedias have been created:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > nds-nl
> > > > > > > > rmy
> > > > > > > > lij
> > > > > > > > bat-smg
> > > > > > > > map-bms
> > > > > > > > ksh
> > > > > > > > pdc
> > > > > > > > vls
> > > > > > > > nrm
> > > > > > > > frp
> > > > > > > > zh-yue
> > > > > > > > tet
> > > > > > > > xal
> > > > > > > > pap
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > See also
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
>
http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Approved_requests_for_new_langu…
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > JeLuF
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Echte DSL-Flatrate dauerhaft für 0,- Euro*!
> > > > > > "Feel free" mit GMX DSL!
http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Wikipedia-l mailing list
> > > > > > Wikipedia-l(a)Wikimedia.org
> > > > > >
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikipedia-l mailing list
> > > > > Wikipedia-l(a)Wikimedia.org
> > > > >
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
> > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikipedia-l mailing list
> > > > Wikipedia-l(a)Wikimedia.org
> > > >
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> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikipedia-l mailing list
> > > Wikipedia-l(a)Wikimedia.org
> > >
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> > >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Wikipedia-l(a)Wikimedia.org
> >
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> >
>
>
> --
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