[Wikipedia-l] [Wikipedia-1] Helga again

[Fred Bauder]

At 02:13 PM 9/3/02 +0800, H. Jonat
 wrote in response to J Hoffmann Kemp's post,
Helga again

Most of which I have deleted

>
>For example : There was a Daily Express Newspaper declaration March 1933:
Judea  declares War on Germany. This militant Zionist group has in 1997
been verified by other religious Jewish groups
http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/ and http://www.netureikarta.org/ (wikipedia
article: Neturei Karta) as cause of WW II. 
>
>One has to wonder why any of this is being hidden ? 
>
>5a. If wanting to get answers and find out the truth  is bordering on
obsession, then I guess you could call it that. 
>
>However I believe I see the complete picture more  clearly than she does.
>
>6a. Editing or correcting etc is fine. 
>
>Control by censorship, keeping basic truth out, not mentioning it at all,
leads to a warped picture. It becomes a lie. 
>
>I guess, one has to ask the question, does wipedia want to be like any
other commercial enterprize, that
>only tells you, what the general public wants to hear
>or is there some commitment to be truthfull ?
>
>H. Jonat

First, let me welcome you to the list. You appear rather under a cloud, but
no reason that should continue. The vast majority of what happens here is
about Wikipedia in general not about you or any particular issue. I hope
you begin to participate and help us solve our more general problems.

My information is that Hitler, for whatever reason, and it is very hard to
figure out why, since he was raised in a part of Austria with almost no
Jews, was obsessed with them and ascribed to them all sorts of qualities
which to a person acquainted with Jews seem fantastic. The following is
taken and partly quoted from recent biography of Hitler, the first volume,
Hitler: 1889-1936 Hubris, by Ian Kershaw, W.W. Norton, ISBN: 0-393-04671-0.
(The one CBS is basing its planned miniseries on). In a letter of September
16, 1919 when asked by one of the participants in the courses of political
education he conducted for the German Army in Munich for clarification of
the 'Jewish Question,' he replied that antisemitism should be based not on
emotion but on 'facts,' the first of which was that Jewry was a race, not a
religion. Emotive antisemitism would produce progroms, he continued;
antisemitism based on 'reason' must, on the other hand, lead to the
systemic removal of the rights of Jews. 'Its final aim,' he concluded,
'must unshakably be the removal of the Jews altogether' Ian K cites as
sources: Deuerlein, 'Hitler's Eintritt', 199; Joachimsthaler, 247; and
Eberhard Jackel and Axel Kuhn (eds.), Hitler. Samtliche Aufzeichnungen
1905-1924, Stuttgart, 1980.

It may be that a small Jewish group as it contemplated the distruction of
Jewry, "declared war" on Hitler's government in 1933 when he was taking
power. But you say:

"This militant Zionist group has in 1997 been verified by other religious
Jewish groups http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/ and
http://www.netureikarta.org/ (wikipedia article: Neturei Karta) as cause of
WW II."

The actual situation is quite different. England had pretty much stood by
as Hitler expanded the territory of Germany to include Austia and
Czechoslovokia and built up his army. It was his invasion of Poland that
triggered the war. It has always been England's policy to prevent any
continental power from growing too strong, the balance of power policy, so
no idealistic motives need to be ascribed to England, but this has nothing
to do with Jews, who had they been given the chance, probably would have
supported the national government as they did during World War I.

So it isn't the little footnote to history, that a small Jewish extremist
group delcared war on Germany, that is objectionable, if it occured; but
the broad stroke you make maintaining that this act somehow caused World
War II by some 'butterfly effect'.

Anyway, welcome aboard,

Fred Bauder