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Hi Isaac,<BR>
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We (or at least I) haven't totally ruled out the "company limited by guarantee" option since that's what Wikimedia UK did.<BR><BR><BR>
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<DIV>-------------------------------------</DIV>
<DIV>Abbas Mahmood</DIV>
<DIV>t | +254722215101</DIV>
<DIV>f | <A target=_blank>www.facebook.com/abbasjnr</A></DIV>
<DIV>s | abbasjnr</DIV>
<DIV>Wikimedia Kenya Member</DIV>
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<DIV>"<EM>Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet is given free access to the sum of all human knowledge. That's our commitment."</EM></DIV>
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<DIV>Please donate: <A href="http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate/Now/en" target=_blank>http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate/Now/en</A></DIV><BR><BR><BR>
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> Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 10:59:29 +0300<BR>> From: kips8505izo@gmail.com<BR>> To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org<BR>> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?<BR>> <BR>> Dear Oscar,<BR>> About the Etherpad issue you should have explained everything clearly,<BR>> thanks to stave am getting the password today.<BR>> My point to you is Why don't register it as a company limited by<BR>> Guarantee? ---NOT FOR PROFIT MAKING:::look at it along those lines and<BR>> if you are OK with that Obadiah and I can assist in drafting the<BR>> constitution (MOA and AOA). at least we have managed to go through the<BR>> process and successful registered one of that Kind<BR>> <BR>> On 05/04/2011, Limoke Oscar <oslimoke@gmail.com> wrote:<BR>> > Guys,<BR>> > I am not so happy with this empty talk of you guys.We need to forge ahead<BR>> > and focus on the Chapter.<BR>> > I shared the etherpad for discusiion of the By-lwas only a fistful of the<BR>> > "usual susspects" loged in and contributed to the same.So shame on you if<BR>> > you did not log into the same and you have your mouth wide open<BR>> > chanting-----well my apologies<BR>> ><BR>> > We need to focus on the bylwas and work on timelines.for instance we need to<BR>> > say like after 14days after sharing the etherpad,the final discussions and<BR>> > contributions will be deemed binding to the whole Chapter.So lets show oour<BR>> > commitement and discuss the bylaws.its a shame that some of us have never<BR>> > even read the existing bylaws so it would be very difficult to make a good<BR>> > contribution....also read from other Chapters and make wise and learned<BR>> > contributions.....<BR>> ><BR>> > see<BR>> ><BR>> > 1. Wikimedia Chapters-<BR>> ><BR>> > http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_chapters&diff=0&oldid=2472514<BR>> > 2. The Etherpad(password-wikimediakenya)----<BR>> > http://oslimoke.ietherpad.com/1<BR>> > 3. WikimediaKE Bylaws--<BR>> > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Kenya/bylaws<BR>> ><BR>> > Regards,<BR>> > and see u at the pad.....<BR>> ><BR>> > On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Abbas Mahmood <abbasjnr@hotmail.com> wrote:<BR>> ><BR>> >> let me repeat what I said earlier: we do NOT need TSLG to wire money into<BR>> >> a personal account. They could pay the expenses directly to the concerned<BR>> >> parties.<BR>> >><BR>> >> And, to answer your question, when we receive a grant, whether it's from<BR>> >> the government or an institution, the grant is not tax-deductible so long<BR>> >> as<BR>> >> it is being utilised to fulfill a non-profit mission. For instance, if you<BR>> >> receive a grant to open up an M-Pesa shop, you are supposed to pay tax out<BR>> >> of it. But in our case, we are non-profit, so we are tax-exempt.<BR>> >><BR>> >> -------------------------------------<BR>> >> Abbas Mahmood<BR>> >> t | +254722215101<BR>> >> f | www.facebook.com/abbasjnr<BR>> >> s | abbasjnr<BR>> >> Wikimedia Kenya Member<BR>> >><BR>> >> "*Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet is given free<BR>> >> access to the sum of all human knowledge. That's our commitment."*<BR>> >> **<BR>> >> Please donate: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate/Now/en<BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> >> ------------------------------<BR>> >> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 22:37:11 -0700<BR>> >> From: bruceobwari@gmail.com<BR>> >><BR>> >> To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org<BR>> >> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?<BR>> >><BR>> >> First let me say the case of TSL &G offers us opportunity to learn , i do<BR>> >> echo Abbas sentiments regarding the need to focus on by-laws,having<BR>> >> listened<BR>> >> to the guy ,it did make lots of sense that if we think of engaging others<BR>> >> we<BR>> >> need to have a formalized engagement ,his being a corporate body it was<BR>> >> crucial . point of correction ,the issue of money being deposited on<BR>> >> individual account and having people posing as wikimedians was extensively<BR>> >> used as an example to issue how we can run into serious legal issues if we<BR>> >> don't address the issue of formality,<BR>> >> On a lighter note, somebody please educate me on this ,whats our tax<BR>> >> obligations when money is deposited in our accounts ,VAT , income tax, pay<BR>> >> as you earn /deposit ,zero rated tax, have a tax -free day ,won't you!<BR>> >><BR>> >> On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 10:42 AM, stephen wanjau<BR>> >> <wanjaustev@gmail.com>wrote:<BR>> >><BR>> >> personally,I think we should focus on the bylaws then form some legal<BR>> >> framework.It was part of the plan anyway.<BR>> >><BR>> >> On 4/4/11, lilian nyarera <lireshi@yahoo.com> wrote:<BR>> >> > Hey Abbas, its time we gave the bylaws a priority because i don't think<BR>> >> > there's any pressing issue at the moment. Again you know matters dealing<BR>> >> > with money must be delt with a lot of sensitivity so that the faster we<BR>> >> > develop a legal framework the better. We are constantly growing big and<BR>> >> soon<BR>> >> > the members, grantors/donors will require audited work with signatories.<BR>> >> > Thats just my thot. though. Regards.<BR>> >> ><BR>> >> > On Mon Apr 4th, 2011 10:12 AM PDT Abbas Mahmood wrote:<BR>> >> ><BR>> >> >>I propose that we now focus more on the bylaws and legal vehicle so that<BR>> >> we<BR>> >> >> can submit the final draft and get registered ASAP, lest we shall miss<BR>> >> >> this and many more partnerships to come.<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> >>> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 19:35:39 +0000<BR>> >> >>> From: sarahosano@gmail.com<BR>> >> >>> To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org<BR>> >> >>> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?<BR>> >> >>><BR>> >> >>> Hello Steve,<BR>> >> >>> I agree that we would require an account becouse at some point we will<BR>> >> be<BR>> >> >>> asking for grants,donations or something,and other than the<BR>> >> foundation,I<BR>> >> >>> dont think anybody else would be willing to deposit money in personal<BR>> >> >>> account.<BR>> >> >>> At this stage that we are still not a legal entity,I find it tricky to<BR>> >> >>> form such a partnership.It is a great idea though.<BR>> >> >>> Regards<BR>> >> >>><BR>> >> >>> Abbas Mahmood <abbasjnr@hotmail.com> wrote:<BR>> >> >>><BR>> >> >>> >I do not agree with the fact that ''money that enters into a personal<BR>> >> >>> > account must be taxed''. And who said we need money in the first<BR>> >> >>> > place?? I mean, they don't have to wire us the money: they could<BR>> >> >>> > directly pay the accommodation and other bills without the money<BR>> >> >>> > passing into our hands.<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >Personnally, I'm also skeptical in forming such a partnershp at this<BR>> >> >>> > stage -- simply because we aren't registered as yet.<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >Regarding our IDs, let's just say that the schools laid mutual trust<BR>> >> in<BR>> >> >>> > us, since after all, they were the sole beneficiaries and they had<BR>> >> >>> > nothing to lose. However, this current scenario is more complex,<BR>> >> since<BR>> >> >>> > it is a partnership and usually requires both parties signing an<BR>> >> >>> > official document, which I don't think we have the capacity to do<BR>> >> >>> > so.<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >I remember talking to Sue (the Executive Director of WMF) while I was<BR>> >> in<BR>> >> >>> > Berlin regarding the grants process and she told me that the reason<BR>> >> why<BR>> >> >>> > the Foundation gives out grants to chapters is because they want us<BR>> >> to<BR>> >> >>> > make mistakes and learn from our mistakes, since the foundation is<BR>> >> >>> > softer, forgiving and has a sense of trust in us. However, when we<BR>> >> make<BR>> >> >>> > a mistake with TSLG, we have the law to answer.<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >I'm not saying no to this partnership, but neither am I saying yes. I<BR>> >> >>> > remain skeptical and await to see other reactions.<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 18:29:07 +0300<BR>> >> >>> >From: wanjaustev@gmail.com<BR>> >> >>> >To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org<BR>> >> >>> >Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >Just expounding on what Bruce just explained.The managing director Of<BR>> >> >>> > TSLG ,Mr. Arthur Olual main worry is security on our side and his<BR>> >> too<BR>> >> >>> > because his is already a company.<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >He said that at some time back some guys went to a school and said<BR>> >> they<BR>> >> >>> > were sent by TSLG and then went ahead.<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >to collect five computers that they said required servicing at 'their<BR>> >> >>> > station'.luckily the school called him and he told the school<BR>> >> >>> > administration that nobody has been mandated to collect computers<BR>> >> from<BR>> >> >>> > schools by TSLG!<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >About the money to carry on the project,he said he cannot deposit<BR>> >> money<BR>> >> >>> > into personal accounts because the auditors could quiz the same and<BR>> >> its<BR>> >> >>> > bad governance!Money into a personal account is income and should be<BR>> >> >>> > taxed.(probably our colleagues who take accounting know what that<BR>> >> >>> > means)<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >By the same token someone could go out and pose to be a wiki-median<BR>> >> and<BR>> >> >>> > do some harm out there then we would be in trouble with the law.<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >In fact he asked us how we have been presenting/introducing ourselves<BR>> >> at<BR>> >> >>> > the schools we visited!<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >So I guess that this is a wake up call so that we lay down measures<BR>> >> >>> > to<BR>> >> >>> > register as a legal entity.<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >Cheers,<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:04 PM, BRANTON OBWARI <bruceobwari@gmail.com<BR>> >> ><BR>> >> >>> > wrote:<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >Steve and i have just met the TSL &G MD<BR>> >> >>> >we had a very<BR>> >> >>> >constructive discussion and among issues that came was the issue of a<BR>> >> >>> >formal engagement in the manner that he gets a formal communication<BR>> >> from<BR>> >> >>> > the Foundation ,or rather some official communication from the<BR>> >> chapters<BR>> >> >>> > heads i.e Abbas ,Oscar,<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> > He was of the view the earlier we formalize the better coz he<BR>> >> >>> >would be having a meeting with Ministry of Education in the next few<BR>> >> >>> >days and he wanted us to have some representatives in the same<BR>> >> meeting.<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> > He also said that the next training for Nyeri teachers was scheduled<BR>> >> to<BR>> >> >>> > occur in the next two weeks and was requesting our participation if<BR>> >> we<BR>> >> >>> >are formally engaged.<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> > He said we can engage him either by one, training his team and<BR>> >> >>> > giving them the content for them to for them to install OR by<BR>> >> >>> > incorporating two members from our team ,<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> > The bone of contention at the moment is the formal engagement so we<BR>> >> >>> > urge Abbas and Oscar to facilitate that,<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> > rgds ,<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> > Steve and Bruce.<BR>> >> >>> >- Show quoted text -<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:00 PM, BRANTON OBWARI <bruceobwari@gmail.com<BR>> >> ><BR>> >> >>> > wrote:<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >Steve and i have just met the TSL &G MD<BR>> >> >>> >we had a very constructive discussion and among issues that came was<BR>> >> the<BR>> >> >>> > issue of a formal engagement in the manner that he gets a formal<BR>> >> >>> > communication from the Foundation ,or rather some official<BR>> >> >>> > communication from the chapters heads i.e Abbas ,Oscar,<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> > He was of the view the earlier we formalize the better coz he<BR>> >> >>> > would be having a meeting with Ministry of Education in the next few<BR>> >> >>> > days and he wanted us to have some representatives in the same<BR>> >> meeting.<BR>> >> >>> > He also said that the next training for Nyeri teachers was<BR>> >> >>> > scheduled to occur in the next two weeks and was requesting our<BR>> >> >>> > participation if we are formally engaged.<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> > He said we can engage him either by one, training his team and<BR>> >> >>> > giving them the content<BR>> >> >>> >On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 9:04 AM, oscar okwero <oscar_okwero@yahoo.com><BR>> >> >>> > wrote:<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >for a new entrant am impressed by that,lets do more to engage our<BR>> >> >>> > members.<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >--- On Sat, 4/2/11, Alex Wafula <xelawafs@yahoo.com> wrote:<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >From: Alex Wafula <xelawafs@yahoo.com><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Kenya] what do you think?<BR>> >> >>> >To: wikimediake@lists.wikimedia.org<BR>> >> >>> >Date: Saturday, April 2, 2011, 5:22 PM<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >Hey Branton,<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >Seems like a great idea. So when do you plan to meetup with these<BR>> >> >>> > guys<BR>> >> >>> > next and get more details on this.<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >Cheers,<BR>> >> >>> >Alex.<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >_______________________________________________<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >WikimediaKE mailing list<BR>> >> >>> >WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org<BR>> >> >>> >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >_______________________________________________<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >WikimediaKE mailing list<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >_______________________________________________<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >WikimediaKE mailing list<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >--<BR>> >> >>> >Stephen Wathika WanjauJomo Kenyatta University of Agriculture And<BR>> >> >>> > Technology.Bsc. Mathematics (Statistics) and Computer<BR>> >> Science.Cell:+254<BR>> >> >>> > 722 238 165<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> > +254 736 429 517<BR>> >> >>> >Facebook: www.facebook.com/swanjau<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >Twitter: www.twitter.com/haha_wanjau<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >skype:stephenwanjau1<BR>> >> >>> >"changing how the world works"<BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> ><BR>> >> >>> >_______________________________________________<BR>> >> >>> >WikimediaKE mailing list<BR>> >> >>> >WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org<BR>> >> >>> >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake<BR>> >> >>> >_______________________________________________<BR>> >> >>> >WikimediaKE mailing list<BR>> >> >>> >WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org<BR>> >> >>> >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake<BR>> >> >>> _______________________________________________<BR>> >> >>> WikimediaKE mailing list<BR>> >> >>> WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org<BR>> >> >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake<BR>> >> >><BR>> >> ><BR>> >> > _______________________________________________<BR>> >> > WikimediaKE mailing list<BR>> >> > WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org<BR>> >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake<BR>> >> ><BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> >> --<BR>> >> Stephen Wathika Wanjau<BR>> >> Jomo Kenyatta University of Agriculture And Technology.<BR>> >> Bsc. Mathematics (*Statistics*) and Computer Science.<BR>> >> Cell:+254 722 238 165<BR>> >> +254 736 429 517<BR>> >><BR>> >> Facebook: www.facebook.com/swanjau<BR>> >><BR>> >> Twitter: www.twitter.com/haha_wanjau<BR>> >><BR>> >> skype:stephenwanjau1<BR>> >><BR>> >> "*changing how the world works*"<BR>> >><BR>> >> _______________________________________________<BR>> >> WikimediaKE mailing list<BR>> >> WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org<BR>> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake<BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> >> _______________________________________________ WikimediaKE mailing list<BR>> >> WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org<BR>> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake<BR>> >><BR>> >> _______________________________________________<BR>> >> WikimediaKE mailing list<BR>> >> WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org<BR>> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake<BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > --<BR>> > Limoke Oscar,<BR>> > mayenge.blogspot.com<BR>> > Freelancer,<BR>> > GeoInformatics and GIScience Student<BR>> ><BR>> <BR>> <BR>> -- <BR>> Isaac K. Kosgei.<BR>> Bachelor of Agribusiness Management<BR>> Egerton University,<BR>> Njoro Kenya.<BR>> (+254727553981)<BR>> www.linkedin.com/in/kipsizoo<BR>> Skype:Kipsizoo<BR>> Twitter:@Kipsizoo<BR>> *"You Must be the Change you wish to see in the world"-Mahatma Ghandi<BR>> *<BR>> <BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>> WikimediaKE mailing list<BR>> WikimediaKE@lists.wikimedia.org<BR>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediake<BR> </body>
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