<font color="#000000"><font><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">The order which was mentioned by Srikanth L, is very useful for the smaller Wiki projects.<br><br>Because, many End users using WP, Wiktionary very most. (I understand the power of Wiktionary today. My math professor said, <b>Use Tamil Wiktionary to get equivalent Tamil word for an English word!</b>)<b> </b>I wondered. :) <br>
<br>As, he's a professor in college he may not know much about these communities behind those projects. Because, the end user only likes OUTPUT just output data. He will not feel about the *Red link* or anything else.<br>
<br>So, from that POV, these kind of extensions should be checked in all platforms.<br><br>Thanks Bala for checking <b>ALL (currently web fonts installed languages) </b>Indic languages & reporting bugs.<br><br>Thanks.<br clear="all">
</font></font></font><font size="4"><b style="font-family:georgia,serif"><font style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">$U</font>®¥∩</b></font><font size="4"><br></font><a style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(51,51,255)" href="http://FirefoxSurya.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://goo.gl/RoMyo.com</a><br>
<a href="http://about.me/suryaceg" target="_blank">http://about.me/suryaceg</a><br><br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 14 December 2011 11:18, Pradeep Mohandas <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:pradeep.mohandas@gmail.com">pradeep.mohandas@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class="im">hi,<br>
<br>
Curious: Is anybody testing this for mobile web? Shiju's report last<br>
week suggested an increase in traffic via mobile web, I think.<br>
I have started trying to read ml.wiki on my cell pointing my phone<br>
</div>browser at <a href="http://ml.m.wikipedia.org" target="_blank">ml.m.wikipedia.org</a> and all I get are boxes right now. I'm<br>
using Opera Mini browser on a Nokia E63.<br>
<div class="im HOEnZb">Pradeep<br>
Handheld<br>
<br>
On 14/12/2011, Bala Jeyaraman <<a href="mailto:sodabottle@gmail.com">sodabottle@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">> Have found a few more bugs in testing (other than the ones mentioned in the<br>
> original mail)<br>
><br>
> 1) Nepali - <a href="https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33039" target="_blank">https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33039</a><br>
> 2) Sanskrit, Hindi and Nepali -<br>
> <a href="https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33038" target="_blank">https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33038</a><br>
> 3) Odiya - <a href="https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33034" target="_blank">https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33034</a><br>
> 4) Sanskrit, Hindi - <a href="https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33040" target="_blank">https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33040</a><br>
><br>
> And they keep coming. At this rate me and srikanth should be paid per bug<br>
> by the WMF. I am yet to touch Assamese, Marathi, Punjabi, Bengali or<br>
> Firefox 4.x, 6.x and IE 6.0, 8.0 and have only began Chrome testing. I am<br>
> totally wiped for the day and quitting testing. Will try to cover the other<br>
> cases tomorrow.<br>
><br>
> Two thoughts at the end of a long day:<br>
> i) To i18n team: Instead of launching a such a buggy code, that too as a<br>
> compulsory and default option for all users, why not listen to feedback and<br>
> do proper testing?. Testing is always better than firefighting. Its never<br>
> too late, roll back this "soft launch", form language teams, test this for<br>
> a few weeks thoroughly and then do project by project launches.<br>
><br>
> ii)To Hindi, Telugu, Kannada, Sanskrit, Oriya, Marathi, Assamese and<br>
> Bengali folks on this list. Spread the word and test, test, test. File bug<br>
> reports. This needs thorough testing in all OSes/browsers/connections by<br>
> people who know the language. Learn from this experience and dont accept<br>
> any untested products. Mayur has reported in one of the bugs that hi wiki<br>
> users are reporting strange issues and has suggested making webfonts<br>
> optional [1] A few weeks back i tried to warn the communities not to accept<br>
> webfonts without proper testing. [2] What i feared has come to pass.<br>
> Probably should have posted in all village pumps.<br>
><br>
> ==Links==<br>
> [1]<a href="https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33024" target="_blank">https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33024</a><br>
> [2]<br>
> <a href="http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2011-November/005153.html" target="_blank">http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2011-November/005153.html</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 9:44 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan <<br>
> <a href="mailto:parakara.ghoda@gmail.com">parakara.ghoda@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Also forgot to tell you. My college uses ONLY systems with Windows XP<br>
>> and Internet Explorer 6. Most students are from a Tamil background,<br>
>> and they read Tamil websites, Wikipedia very often.<br>
>><br>
>> On 12/13/11, Srikanth Lakshmanan <<a href="mailto:srik.lak@gmail.com">srik.lak@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> > Hi all,<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Pardon for a long mail, just unavoidable.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > We have seen the WebFonts roll out[0] last night to most Indic wikis<br>
>> except<br>
>> > Malayalam and Tamil. We in Tamil Community felt WebFonts extension is<br>
>> just<br>
>> > not ready for us. We would like to share on why we in Tamil community<br>
>> didnt<br>
>> > chose webfonts and also what could work better in future for Indic<br>
>> > communities during technology adoption.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > 1. *Unavailability of "Quality Free fonts"* :-<br>
>> > During the development, our request for not setting the default font as<br>
>> > a<br>
>> > lower quality font was rejected citing "it will defeat the purpose of<br>
>> > extension".[1] The available fonts had issues and deploying the<br>
>> > extension<br>
>> > with those low quality fonts to everyone would not only defeat the<br>
>> purpose<br>
>> > of extension, but also gives Tamil Wikipedia a bad image when people<br>
>> > just<br>
>> > cant read the fonts even though they had better fonts in system. (Just<br>
>> like<br>
>> > how i18n team says people who see boxes will just simply close the<br>
>> window,<br>
>> > we say giving these poor fonts will also lead to same thing and not help<br>
>> > the cause, instead will also hurt those who have better fonts.).<br>
>> ><br>
>> > 2. *Quality of User Experience* :-<br>
>> > We are a smaller wiki, we have a smaller reader base, but still we are<br>
>> > ranked 7th most visited website in Tamil according to alexa[2]. Just<br>
>> > like<br>
>> > how no-nonsense / no-mediocrity is tolerated in any code that enters WMF<br>
>> > cluster, any change which will affect the site's look and feel, user<br>
>> > experience will have to be of highest standards and must be accepted by<br>
>> > community. WebFonts were just not ready to enter Wikipedia, since it<br>
>> > changes the UX for all the readers to help a potentially lower number of<br>
>> > users who dont have Tamil fonts than the current existing reader base.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > *What we feel was wrong in WebFonts deployment*<br>
>> ><br>
>> > We have also been seeing the wikis where they have been rolled out and<br>
>> > reporting issues. We ourselves are reporting issues inspite of not<br>
>> > taking<br>
>> > WebFonts, with the hope software just gets better and some day we can<br>
>> > deploy them. Dont get us wrong, we are not against technology, we just<br>
>> need<br>
>> > it in better form and are not in any urgency. (After all we at Ta wiki<br>
>> > initiated an RFC and asked Webfonts even before the announcement was<br>
>> made).<br>
>> > We would also like to mention some points which we feel i18n team could<br>
>> > have done better for a smoother launch.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > 1. *Font Testing* :-<br>
>> > The point of language support team is that the people who are aware of<br>
>> > language give feedback to make any software better supported for the<br>
>> > language. We are not sure if Font-Testing was ever done at all for those<br>
>> > languages where the WebFonts were deployed. The hinting issue which was<br>
>> > a<br>
>> > concern and made us raise against deployment in Tamil is also present in<br>
>> > Hindi,Sanskrit,Telugu(atleast till we saw) and gave the same worst<br>
>> > readability. The i18n team did font assessment[3], testing only 1 word<br>
>> > to<br>
>> > test the font. Can any font be tested with just rendering of 4<br>
>> characters /<br>
>> > 1 word? For Tamil,we did a test in little more comprehensive way(We<br>
>> > would<br>
>> > not say its complete)[4]. This should have been a *must* to see<br>
>> rendering /<br>
>> > font issues with chosen default font especially since the fonts are<br>
>> > being<br>
>> > set default to every single user to the site. Sadly community was<br>
>> involved<br>
>> > the least, a note was posted in Village pumps and we dont think<br>
>> > community<br>
>> > involved itself in any testing and poor quality was eventually pushed<br>
>> > without proper testing.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > 2. *Real world testing* :-<br>
>> > Though cross browser testing was done, there was a severe lack of real<br>
>> > world testing and as a result we are seeing a host of issues being<br>
>> > discovered post launch. Average PC in India might have 1 GB RAM, Firefox<br>
>> 3<br>
>> > / 4, worse IE 5.5 / IE6 on 100 Kbps semi-broadband connection. We cannot<br>
>> > tell them move to latest or ignore them. More care should have been<br>
>> > taken<br>
>> > especially since the webfonts is bound to set a default font.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > With only a few hours of testing serious issues have been found - in IE<br>
>> 8<br>
>> > where webfonts might be rolled back [5], IE 7.0 (where webfonts dont<br>
>> work)<br>
>> > [6] , ubuntu + Firefox (fixed now) [7] and Win+Firefox 5.0, [8]. We<br>
>> > are<br>
>> > still testing for other browsers and usecases and dont know how many<br>
>> issues<br>
>> > we will discover. In short - This code is not ready to go live,<br>
>> especially<br>
>> > when it is being made default compulsorily for everyone. There are<br>
>> serious<br>
>> > performance issues for typical Indian internet connections as well.[9]<br>
>> ><br>
>> > 3. *Communication and Community Engagement* :-<br>
>> > Most of the above things could have solved earlier if there was more<br>
>> > communication and community engagement. We asked for more information,<br>
>> > engagement on this very list. There was no reply to the mail on<br>
>> increasing<br>
>> > community engagement for i18n projects[10]. Most communities know<br>
>> WebFonts<br>
>> > is coming on Dec 12, didnt know what was coming, any further details.<br>
>> > Worse, Even Indic Consultant was not having clear information. Why this<br>
>> > lack of transparency? Community is more than willing to help, if only<br>
>> they<br>
>> > are informed. Even though we did not take up WebFonts, we have spent<br>
>> > time<br>
>> > to help making it better.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > And the end users in the wikis dont know where to report and follow up<br>
>> > issues. (Not everyone is aware of and familiar with the Bugzilla<br>
>> process).<br>
>> > The request we raised to have a visible bug reporting link has not been<br>
>> > acted upon [11]. There might be a lot of issues going unreported,<br>
>> > because<br>
>> > people dont know whom to report to. When a change of this scale is being<br>
>> > done, Community admins must be advised to run Sitenotice campaigns to<br>
>> > inform the users about the change with some solid newbie oriented<br>
>> > documentation. Infact this must be done for RFC itself, so as to make an<br>
>> > informed decision. We did the same for RFC in Tamil[12].<br>
>> ><br>
>> > *Proposal for Future i18n / any special deployments to Indic<br>
>> wikiprojects*:-<br>
>> ><br>
>> > The WebFonts deployment is a classic example of making deployment<br>
>> > without<br>
>> > enough community engagement. Can this done in any of English / German /<br>
>> > Russian wikipedia which have a strong community? The fact that Tamil /<br>
>> > Malayalam resisted was because the community had concerns over the<br>
>> > solution. Till an hour before deployment yesterday, we did not know if<br>
>> > Ta<br>
>> > wiki projects will get webfonts despite our objections. We had been<br>
>> > pursuing Siebrand and Gerard across forums - facebook, twitter, meta<br>
>> > talk<br>
>> > pages, village pumps, gmail chat etc looking for answers. But till the<br>
>> > deployment happened, we had no clue what we would be getting. This<br>
>> > method<br>
>> > of deploying in silence *must* stop ASAP. Any deployment to any Indic<br>
>> wiki<br>
>> > must go through the community (language support teams) informed of the<br>
>> > change with Indic Consultant kept in loop. We suggest Shiju Alex to work<br>
>> on<br>
>> > a policy and put it in place regarding this. If there is problem<br>
>> > identifying community members to help, we are sure Shiju will help<br>
>> > connecting.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Irrespective of that happening Tamil Wiki Projects will follow this<br>
>> process.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > 1. Test any deployment on translatewiki<br>
>> > 2. File Bugs and verify in translatewiki till it reaches acceptable<br>
>> level.<br>
>> > 3. Language support team member will make a RFC page explaining the<br>
>> merits<br>
>> > / demerits of the technology in simple terms with use of screenshots /<br>
>> > external links<br>
>> > 4. Reverify / Ask for deployment in largely-inactive Wikiprojects like<br>
>> > WikiQuote / WikiBooks *post community concensus*<br>
>> > 5. Test again / File Bugs<br>
>> > 6. Reverify / Ask for deployment Wikiprojects next in line in terms of<br>
>> > activity ( Wiktionary / Wikinews/ Wikisource)<br>
>> > 7. Test again / File Bugs<br>
>> > 8. Only after ironing out all issues, any deployment will be allowed in<br>
>> > Tamil Wikipedia.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > We had burnt our fingers during Narayam deployment already once and<br>
>> > community was so resistive of Narayam itself and was asking to go back<br>
>> > to<br>
>> > older javascript solution. After that we followed the above process for<br>
>> > bringing back Narayam on all Tamil Wikiprojects.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > We suggest the other communities adopt something similar. We sincerely<br>
>> hope<br>
>> > that the community engagement is improved, not just before deployment,<br>
>> even<br>
>> > from start of development.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > [0] <a href="http://blog.wikimedia.org/2011/12/12/going-live-december-12-2011/" target="_blank">http://blog.wikimedia.org/2011/12/12/going-live-december-12-2011/</a><br>
>> > [1] <a href="https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/30506" target="_blank">https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/30506</a><br>
>> > [2] <a href="http://www.alexa.com/topsites/category/Top/World/Tamil" target="_blank">http://www.alexa.com/topsites/category/Top/World/Tamil</a><br>
>> > [3] <a href="http://translatewiki.net/wiki/WebFonts_assessment" target="_blank">http://translatewiki.net/wiki/WebFonts_assessment</a><br>
>> > [4] <a href="http://translatewiki.net/wiki/User:Sodabottle/test1" target="_blank">http://translatewiki.net/wiki/User:Sodabottle/test1</a><br>
>> > [5] <a href="https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/32775" target="_blank">https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/32775</a><br>
>> > [6] <a href="https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/33024" target="_blank">https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/33024</a><br>
>> > [7] <a href="https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/33025" target="_blank">https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/33025</a><br>
>> > [8] <a href="https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/33018" target="_blank">https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/33018</a><br>
>> > [9] <a href="https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/33027" target="_blank">https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/33027</a><br>
>> > [10]<br>
>> ><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2011-November/005153.html" target="_blank">http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2011-November/005153.html</a><br>
>> > [11] <a href="https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/32942" target="_blank">https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/32942</a><br>
>> > [12] <a href="http://tawp.in/r/2r1f" target="_blank">http://tawp.in/r/2r1f</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > --<br>
>> > Regards<br>
>> > Bala Jeyaraman & Srikanth.L<br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Regards,<br>
>> Srikanth Ramakrishnan.<br>
>> Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on December 10th.<br>
>> <a href="http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore" target="_blank">http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore</a><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
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>><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
</div></div><div class="im HOEnZb">--<br>
Pradeep Mohandas<br>
How Pradeep uses email - <a href="http://goo.gl/6v1I9" target="_blank">http://goo.gl/6v1I9</a><br>
<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br>