Dear Bala,<br>>><br>we dont want "kids", who will "mess up" by "drawing mangoes and bananas" here. We want atleast semi competent, interested people who can act responsibly.<br><br>*All I can say is that <b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">EVERY KING WAS ONCE A CRYING BABY</b>.<br>
Remember the day when you created your account on wikipedia. With all due respect to your edit count at present and your current status at wiki, you were also a KID on wikipedia at that day. A KID who has grown up now and understands wikipedia well enough.<br>
<br>Same is the case with IEP students. Mastering wikipedia and coming to terms with it is not a cakewalk. The students are learning from their mistakes.<br><br>As far as the Campus Ambassadors are concerned, yes there were a few inactive ones. But there were also many CA's who put their heart and souls into the program. Ram is one of them. In my opinion, judging a person's knowledge about wikipedia by his edit count is not at all fair! <br>
<br>I would request you not to get personal. No doubt you are crossing the limits, even you know that. <br><br>And for everyone who is following this thread, IEP is not dead for sure! <br>It's just that it met with an accident, got deeply wounded. Doctors are doing their job.<br>
<br>IEP will be back - stronger and healthier !<br><br>Thanks,<br>Pratik Lahoti.<br>CA, CoEP.<br><br><br><br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 1:08 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:wikimediaindia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org">wikimediaindia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: Death and Post-mortem of Indian Education Program pilot<br>
(Erik Moeller)<br>
2. Re: Let's *Talk* (Erik Moeller)<br>
3. Re: Death and Post-mortem of Indian Education Program pilot<br>
(Ram Shankar Yadav)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 23:07:23 -0800<br>
From: Erik Moeller <<a href="mailto:erik@wikimedia.org">erik@wikimedia.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Death and Post-mortem of Indian<br>
Education Program pilot<br>
To: Wikimedia India Community list<br>
<<a href="mailto:wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org">wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org</a>><br>
Message-ID:<br>
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<br>
On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 10:45 PM, Bala Jeyaraman <<a href="mailto:sodabottle@gmail.com">sodabottle@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> This sums up the problem of the IEP -? designed by people clueless about how<br>
> en wiki works and run by "campus ambassadors" who view wikipedia as a giant<br>
> sandbox to play with students.<br>
<br>
Speaking of playing in sandboxes, just for you, a nice shallow blog<br>
post that applies:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.smallact.com/blog/3-keys-to-playing-nicely-in-the-social-media-sandbox/" target="_blank">http://www.smallact.com/blog/3-keys-to-playing-nicely-in-the-social-media-sandbox/</a><br>
<br>
Enjoy the sand,<br>
Erik<br>
--<br>
Erik M?ller<br>
VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation<br>
<br>
Support Free Knowledge: <a href="http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate" target="_blank">http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 23:38:09 -0800<br>
From: Erik Moeller <<a href="mailto:erik@wikimedia.org">erik@wikimedia.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Let's *Talk*<br>
To: Wikimedia India Community list<br>
<<a href="mailto:wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org">wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org</a>><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAEg6ZH=hptDAZRq2=et19whrcPAP=<a href="mailto:Zkrbuaxy8-h9FvE5YcM%2Bw@mail.gmail.com">Zkrbuaxy8-h9FvE5YcM+w@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
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<br>
Well said, Hisham, Srikeit at al. Nobody's asking for rah-rah<br>
excitement. Being dispassionate and critical is the goal. Being<br>
hostile and dickish is unhelpful -- there's no possible useful end<br>
that could serve.<br>
<br>
So: If you're adding more heat than light to a conversation, please<br>
don't join the conversation. If you're attacking others and calling<br>
into question their legitimacy in being here, without them having<br>
violated any of the ground rules of good faith behavior, you begin<br>
violating those norms yourself. Calm down, have a tea, and read some<br>
good poetry (or write it, if you're truly suffering :-).<br>
<br>
At WMF, we'd be completely happy to abandon the Global Education<br>
Program model altogether if it turned out to be a failure, and we'd be<br>
happy to abandon it for India or other countries if it turned out to<br>
be a failure there. Nobody wants to spend $$$ and blood/sweat equity<br>
(the only type that exists in nonprofits) on stuff that isn't<br>
achieving its intended impact.<br>
<br>
So far, however, what I've seen is a very successful US initiative<br>
followed by an India pilot which has encountered very serious, deep<br>
challenges with contribution quality. The analysis that I've seen so<br>
far really suggests that what it comes down to is abject contribution<br>
quality by lots of the participating students and a routine pattern of<br>
copyright infringement (and I would label it plagiarism if they're not<br>
identifying the source). Let me know if I got that wrong.<br>
<br>
That sucks, but if so, that's a problem that needs to be named to be<br>
tackled in a serious fashion. No amount of tweaking the program<br>
parameters would have solved the issues of the scale and type that<br>
have been pointed out. This goes to the fundamentals.<br>
<br>
And - to stay with the sandbox metaphor from another thread - if the<br>
majority of contributors to a university-based program in India can<br>
reach won't be able to contribute at an acceptable quality in WP<br>
proper, then perhaps it's also time to think about more aggressive<br>
sandboxing of contributions early in the game, at least when we're<br>
dealing with a course where we either don't know what to expect, or we<br>
_do_ based on experiences like the one to date. Possibly even using an<br>
external sandbox.<br>
<br>
Lastly, let's not forget that we haven't made any determination as to<br>
what the best methods are to gain, and keep, great new contributors in<br>
India (or elsewhere, for that matter). We can, and should, continue to<br>
experiment with many different approaches, including some of the<br>
suggestions that have been made in previous threads.<br>
<br>
All the energy, including the occasional flamewar, that I'm seeing<br>
here really speaks tons to the strengths of the India community as a<br>
whole. Energy, creativity, intelligence and healthy tension are the<br>
ingredients of success, not failure.<br>
<br>
Srikeit, I'll unfortunately miss your talk on Saturday as I'll be at<br>
the hackathon. But I look forward to hearing about it and hopefully<br>
catching up on Friday. :-)<br>
--<br>
Erik M?ller<br>
VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation<br>
<br>
Support Free Knowledge: <a href="http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate" target="_blank">http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:08:21 +0530<br>
From: Ram Shankar Yadav <<a href="mailto:ramshankaryadav@gmail.com">ramshankaryadav@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Death and Post-mortem of Indian<br>
Education Program pilot<br>
To: Wikimedia India Community list<br>
<<a href="mailto:wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org">wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org</a>><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CABUU066%2BkCEk6fXkKEVFgbv-T1KvDag_UMaTk%2B78qx5-ZUgnUw@mail.gmail.com">CABUU066+kCEk6fXkKEVFgbv-T1KvDag_UMaTk+78qx5-ZUgnUw@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
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<br>
*This is exactly the kind of cluelessness i am referring to. The<br>
[[WP:COMPETENCE]] exists exactly for this purpose - we dont want "kids",<br>
who will "mess up" by "drawing mangoes and bananas" here. We want atleast<br>
semi competent, interested people who can act responsibly.*<br>
*<br>
*<br>
*- *First of all stop playing those policy games, before looking at<br>
[[WP:COMPETENCE]] I would rather say to have a look at [[WP:DONTBITE]].<br>
<br>
*But then, i should expect this general cluelessness and ignorance from a<br>
"campus ambassador" with a grand total of 41 mainspace edits?. *<br>
*<br>
*<br>
- Dude you are getting personal here, I respect you obsession with numbers<br>
but the whole idea of a "campus ambassador" is to help others to edit,<br>
instead of writing articles for edit count. You just took one number and<br>
creating all the fuss but you ignored others like ...<br>
<br>
Total Edits :705 (in last 5 months)<br>
Article 49 7.09%<br>
Talk 6 0.87%<br>
*User 185 26.77%*<br>
*User talk 238 34.44%*<br>
*Wikipedia 144 20.84%*<br>
Wikipedia talk 26 3.76%<br>
Template 37 5.35%<br>
Help 6 0.87%<br>
<br>
For more stats :<br>
<a href="http://toolserver.org/%7Esoxred93/pcount/index.php?name=Ramshankaryadav&lang=en&wiki=wikipedia" target="_blank">http://toolserver.org/~soxred93/pcount/index.php?name=Ramshankaryadav&lang=en&wiki=wikipedia</a><br>
<br>
Apart from the numbers we got the experience of personally touching 1000+<br>
students and interacting with Faculty and Directors, which you can not do<br>
by siting and editing Wikipedia in your living room. I'm not a 14000+<br>
editor like you but I share the same philosophy of free knowledge, but<br>
instead of respecting us you are doing all the mud throwing, it's not<br>
acceptable at all!!<br>
<br>
*This sums up the problem of the IEP - designed by people clueless about<br>
how en wiki works and run by "campus ambassadors" who view wikipedia as a<br>
giant sandbox to play with students.*<br>
- You are crossing your limits here, we have repeatedly accepted our faults<br>
but this is too much, we tried something new things, and few worked few<br>
didn't by it doesn't gives you the authority to say whatever you like to!<br>
Instead of coming up with "How we can make it better" you are more into the<br>
mode of "You did it wrong"!.<br>
<br>
~Ram<br>
<br>
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Bala Jeyaraman <<a href="mailto:sodabottle@gmail.com">sodabottle@gmail.com</a>>wrote:<br>
<br>
><br>
> -* If Hisham and Nitika were clueless why didn't to step-up and asked<br>
> them about the expectations. One more thing when you are starting something<br>
> new don't expect people will start reaching you from the Day1, we need to<br>
> build a relationship and get their faith that "we are here to help you, and<br>
> it's going to be great learning experience". Tell me how many times did you<br>
> reached out to students, even if you did and they didn't responded don't<br>
> loose the faith, they are new to this environment just help them to take<br>
> baby steps.<br>
><br>
> *I remember doing this exactly on Oct 12 office hours. Here is the<br>
> transcript snippet which srikanth has provided in the earlier mail. Again<br>
> you are demonstrating your ignorance about what an OA role is.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Oct 12 15:34:32 <srikanthlogic> but i was on IRC, got only one help req<br>
>> in a whole week, my talk page was untouched. I am ready to help if<br>
>> people reach out :)<br>
>> Oct 12 15:35:33 <Hmundol> srikanthlogic & soda bottle : yes, i know that<br>
>> more students ought to be reaching out but sometimes they don't even know<br>
>> the mistake they are committing so don't reach out. ?what the Campus<br>
>> Ambassadors have been doing i s proactively going to contrib histories and<br>
>> checking in. ?unfortunately, that seems to the only way that it's worked.<br>
><br>
><br>
> *.*<br>
> - *First of all I didn't like the way you put this statement, if helping<br>
> someone by teaching them the right way is some kind of low grade job for<br>
> you, then I can surely say you are a misfit here! Just imagine you are<br>
> trying teach a kid to write, they will definitely mess it up by drawing<br>
> mangoes and bananas, and when you clear the slate you don't call it<br>
> janatorship, coz you know what you are doing, and having faith that the kid<br>
> will learn by doing mistakes eventually.<br>
><br>
> *<br>
> This is exactly the kind of cluelessness i am referring to. The<br>
> [[WP:COMPETENCE]] exists exactly for this purpose - we dont want "kids",<br>
> who will "mess up" by "drawing mangoes and bananas" here. We want atleast<br>
> semi competent, interested people who can act responsibly.<br>
><br>
> But then, i should expect this general cluelessness and ignorance from a<br>
> "campus ambassador" with a grand total of 41 mainspace edits?.<br>
><br>
> This sums up the problem of the IEP - designed by people clueless about<br>
> how en wiki works and run by "campus ambassadors" who view wikipedia as a<br>
> giant sandbox to play with students.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Ashwin Baindur <<a href="mailto:ashwin.baindur@gmail.com">ashwin.baindur@gmail.com</a><br>
> > wrote:<br>
><br>
>> We have had a lot of responses and recriminations on this issue. In the<br>
>> light of all that has happened, please let us stop our grousing. Hisham has<br>
>> opened a new thread, and accepted full responsibility. That is the end of<br>
>> the blame-game as far as anybody is concerned. All of us are inviolved and<br>
>> all of us are both innocent and blameworthy, including and especially me. I<br>
>> know I should have done more.<br>
>><br>
>> Let us bring this thread to a close. Let all posts now be in response to<br>
>> his new thread only and couched in positive terms and offering useful<br>
>> suggestions or fresh input.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Warm regards,<br>
>><br>
>> Ashwin Baindur<br>
>> ------------------------------------------------------<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 11:39 AM, Ram Shankar Yadav <<br>
>> <a href="mailto:ramshankaryadav@gmail.com">ramshankaryadav@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>> Hi Bala,<br>
>>><br>
>>> *"Oh yeah. Do everything wrong and then blame the OA. Hisham, Nitika<br>
>>> and apparently you are clueless what an OAs role is. I had no clue the OA<br>
>>> role involved going through every edit and do the student's work. IEPs<br>
>>> mails did not specify that the expectation about OA role was doing the<br>
>>> student's homework. If you had made this clear, i would have never signed<br>
>>> up."*<br>
>>><br>
>>> - We are not putting blame on anyone. If Hisham and Nitika were clueless<br>
>>> why didn't to step-up and asked them about the expectations. One more thing<br>
>>> when you are starting something new don't expect people will start reaching<br>
>>> you from the Day1, we need to build a relationship and get their faith that<br>
>>> "we are here to help you, and it's going to be great learning experience".<br>
>>> Tell me how many times did you reached out to students, even if you did and<br>
>>> they didn't responded don't loose the faith, they are new to this<br>
>>> environment just help them to take baby steps.<br>
>>><br>
>>> *It imagined them to be janitors who would cleanup after the students.<br>
>>> (Dont believe me?, ask the other Indian guy who was an OA in both programs<br>
>>> - MikeLynch).*<br>
>>> - First of all I didn't like the way you put this statement, if helping<br>
>>> someone by teaching them the right way is some kind of low grade job for<br>
>>> you, then I can surely say you are a misfit here! Just imagine you are<br>
>>> trying teach a kid to write, they will definitely mess it up by drawing<br>
>>> mangoes and bananas, and when you clear the slate you don't call it<br>
>>> janatorship, coz you know what you are doing, and having faith that the kid<br>
>>> will learn by doing mistakes eventually.<br>
>>><br>
>>> *Another wrong fact. An Indian admin called spacemanspiff who tried to<br>
>>> point Hisham and group in the right direction in early september when<br>
>>> things started to go wrong (it was in the talk page of Moonriddengirl,<br>
>>> where fluffernutter went to help with copyvios). He even designed a helpful<br>
>>> Q&A page which Hisham did not use. Disgusted with the IEP attitude, Spiff<br>
>>> quit trying to help. The whole issue could have been stopped right then and<br>
>>> there if the warnings of multiple editors and admins had been heeded.*<br>
>>><br>
>>> - Accept my apologies for not able to recall few Indian Admins who tired<br>
>>> to help us, but if you see the big picture, the whole scene was dominated<br>
>>> by editors from abroad. We needed your help and support when these folks<br>
>>> were pointing fingers on Indian Education System. One more thing, after the<br>
>>> first few instances of copyvios we reached out in person and took 35+<br>
>>> sessions in various classes but even after putting that effort few of them<br>
>>> kept doing the copy-paste for last minute submissions.<br>
>>><br>
>>> *And why exactly do you need "Indian" community to help?. The newbie<br>
>>> editors were getting plenty of help from the global community.*<br>
>>> *- *By "Indian" community I mean people like you and me and others you<br>
>>> are either reading or replying this thread, guys we surely needed your<br>
>>> support at the forefront.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> We never denied the fact that we have failed in certain areas but that<br>
>>> doesn't mean that overall program is a failure or dead.<br>
>>><br>
>>> We believe in learning from our mistakes and happy to do new ones to<br>
>>> learn better.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Cheers,<br>
>>> Ram<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 11:27 PM, Bala Jeyaraman <<a href="mailto:sodabottle@gmail.com">sodabottle@gmail.com</a>>wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>>> >>*we never got the support which was required from an OA. Honestly<br>
>>>> speaking there was no interaction between OAs and CAs and without<br>
>>>> that coordination chances of success are quite low. *<br>
>>>> *My only point here is to all the OAs in this discussion is that if<br>
>>>> Hisham/Nitika has not set the expectations right, why didn't you approached<br>
>>>> them, then and there! Anybody can come and comment on this failure story<br>
>>>> but even you were a part of this sinking ship.*<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Oh yeah. Do everything wrong and then blame the OA. Hisham, Nitika and<br>
>>>> apparently you are clueless what an OAs role is. I had no clue the OA role<br>
>>>> involved going through every edit and do the student's work. IEPs mails<br>
>>>> did not specify that the expectation about OA role was doing the student's<br>
>>>> homework. If you had made this clear, i would have never signed up.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> So get this straight - IEP had no clue what Online Ambassador's did in<br>
>>>> the PPP. They just used the term in IEP and recruited a bunch of volunteer<br>
>>>> editors expecting them to cleanup after the students. This is not an issue<br>
>>>> of miscommunication, this is an issue of ignorance. The IEP didnt know what<br>
>>>> OAs do. It imagined them to be janitors who would cleanup after the<br>
>>>> students. (Dont believe me?, ask the other Indian guy who was an OA in<br>
>>>> both programs - MikeLynch).<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> >>,* I can't recall a single instance when an Indian Administrator<br>
>>>> came forward and found a copyvio/poor editing, etc<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> *<br>
>>>> Another wrong fact. An Indian admin called spacemanspiff who tried to<br>
>>>> point Hisham and group in the right direction in early september when<br>
>>>> things started to go wrong (it was in the talk page of Moonriddengirl,<br>
>>>> where fluffernutter went to help with copyvios). He even designed a helpful<br>
>>>> Q&A page which Hisham did not use. Disgusted with the IEP attitude, Spiff<br>
>>>> quit trying to help. The whole issue could have been stopped right then and<br>
>>>> there if the warnings of multiple editors and admins had been heeded.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> And why exactly do you need "Indian" community to help?. The newbie<br>
>>>> editors were getting plenty of help from the global community. You dont<br>
>>>> need a specific nationality editor to come and tell the students what to do<br>
>>>> and what not to do. A student who doesnt listen to "Do not copy paste"<br>
>>>> instruction coming from a American editor is not going to care if the<br>
>>>> instruction came from an Indian editor.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 10:42 PM, Ram Shankar Yadav <<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:ramshankaryadav@gmail.com">ramshankaryadav@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>>> +1 Srikanth!<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Hey Folks!<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> I'm Ram and I'm one of the CA's worked closely with CoEP and SSE. I<br>
>>>>> would like to share my views on this most discussed topic, coz the term<br>
>>>>> "FAIL" is quite thought provoking, and now everyone has an opinion and I<br>
>>>>> respect that.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> As a Campus Ambassador(CA) we faced the heat on ground and nobody can<br>
>>>>> feel the pain like us when we heard the discontinuation of IEP in CoEP coz<br>
>>>>> we gave our personal time physically and virtually in every possible way to<br>
>>>>> make this program a success, and I promise we'll keep doing that.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> My views on IEP:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> 1. *Wikipedia India Education Program(IEP) for a CA* : The whole idea<br>
>>>>> of this program like everyone knows is to get more editors, but we have our<br>
>>>>> own set of challenges in the age of Facebook. What a bunch of CAs have done<br>
>>>>> in as short span of 5 months can't be done in a couple of months by<br>
>>>>> existing Community(local or global), coz we touched the students(1000+)<br>
>>>>> personally, we had the experience of interactions with Faculty and<br>
>>>>> Directors.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Our only aim was to tell them(students) that Wikipedia is "cool", and<br>
>>>>> indeed we did that! in the way we taught wikipedia to them. Few things<br>
>>>>> which we tell our students in our Wiki Sessions:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> - Writing on Wikipedia will give you global audience, 400 million<br>
>>>>> unique visitors<br>
>>>>> - It will improve your Writing, Critical Thinking<br>
>>>>> and Collaborative skills<br>
>>>>> - It will add a bullet point to your resume and hence better<br>
>>>>> placements<br>
>>>>> - Lastly it will also give you marks if you follow the given<br>
>>>>> deadlines<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Yes, I agree that we have seen setback coz of the copyvios, but I<br>
>>>>> totally agree with Srikanth coz this was due to the scale and numbers.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> 2. *Faculty Involvement* : It is one of the weak link in IEP, though<br>
>>>>> they knew the importance of this program, but they have their own set of<br>
>>>>> obligations/mindset, and we always felt that not all the faculty members<br>
>>>>> are tracking the students and their articles. We have some exemplary Profs<br>
>>>>> who are so much involved that they reached every student's talk page and<br>
>>>>> wrote message on it, and on the other side few never opened the course page<br>
>>>>> itself!<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Lesson for us is to enroll only those who are really interested and<br>
>>>>> track them as well, drop the course if they are not putting effort as<br>
>>>>> required, but this scenario was different 6 months back, coz no one knew<br>
>>>>> about this program, and yes we did enrolled a few inactive faculty coz they<br>
>>>>> showed interest but never lived up to the expectation.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> 3. *Online Ambassadors* : As Hisham already told that we got very<br>
>>>>> late engagement of our OAs in this program as well as the OA expectation<br>
>>>>> issue, we never got the support which was required from an OA. Honestly<br>
>>>>> speaking there was no interaction between OAs and CAs and without<br>
>>>>> that coordination chances of success are quite low.<br>
>>>>> My only point here is to all the OAs in this discussion is that if<br>
>>>>> Hisham/Nitika has not set the expectations right, why didn't you approached<br>
>>>>> them, then and there! Anybody can come and comment on this failure story<br>
>>>>> but even you were a part of this sinking ship.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> 4. *India Community* : We really missed you throughout this program,<br>
>>>>> I can't recall a single instance when an Indian Administrator came forward<br>
>>>>> and found a copyvio/poor editing, etc. We don't bifurcate among community<br>
>>>>> and we never taught our students that only Indian community will help, our<br>
>>>>> aim was to make their "collaborative" skill better instead of creating a<br>
>>>>> division among the community.<br>
>>>>> For my fellow Indian Wiki Community, folks we would love to hear from<br>
>>>>> you and surely need your help and support in future.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> 5. *Global Community* : Firstly I would say "Thank you" to them for<br>
>>>>> teaching the harsh lessons but we really liked the way you guys supported<br>
>>>>> us. Yes, I know few folks who always crib and do the mud throwing on this<br>
>>>>> program and it's implementation, but I know folks who have helped writing<br>
>>>>> great articles, reviewing them and event doing copy-editing and cleaning.<br>
>>>>> We need to surely communicate better with them in future.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> 6. *Campus Ambassadors*: The best thing that happen to me coz of IEP<br>
>>>>> is I found great friends who share the same philosophy of free knowledge.<br>
>>>>> We gave our personal time not only in taking session but also training new<br>
>>>>> bunch of CAs and helping students in every possible way.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> We were the face of Wikipedia on campus and we love it!<br>
>>>>> Like Srikanth said yes we were overloaded coz of the number of<br>
>>>>> students per CA was very large still we did our bit to help every students<br>
>>>>> by either reaching out personally and virtually.<br>
>>>>> One point to note here that out of 40 selected CAs(Gen 1 & 2) only 30<br>
>>>>> are active and out of those 30 only 20 track/follow and reach out students,<br>
>>>>> so in short we need more involvements for the dormant CAs.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> 7. *Students* : We found good and bad students, student I know has<br>
>>>>> written a GA and I also know a student who in-spite of several warnings by<br>
>>>>> phone/mail and personal visits they kept copy-paste! Between the two<br>
>>>>> extremes there are folks who failed few times but did learned from it and<br>
>>>>> had become great editors.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> All in all the learning here is to, assess the level of students based<br>
>>>>> on their skill(writing especially) and their educational background(rural<br>
>>>>> or urban). Also we need to teach them the most important thing, NOT TO COPY<br>
>>>>> PASTE!!!, from the very first day of the wiki sessions.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> *Summary*: We are challenging the status quo by bringing a new way of<br>
>>>>> learning and teaching things and have learned some essential lessons for<br>
>>>>> making this program a success in future. I would personally request my<br>
>>>>> fellow Wikipedians to keep a faith on us and support us in every possible<br>
>>>>> way coz *"helping hands are better than praying lips"*.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Let's make this world a better place!<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Cheers,<br>
>>>>> Ram<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 9:00 PM, Srikanth Lakshmanan <<br>
>>>>> <a href="mailto:srik.lak@gmail.com">srik.lak@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 20:15, Theo10011 <<a href="mailto:de10011@gmail.com">de10011@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 4:16 PM, Nitika <<a href="mailto:ntandon@wikimedia.org">ntandon@wikimedia.org</a>>wrote:<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> I would also like to share with you all some of the good articles<br>
>>>>>>>> that students have written.<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Nitika, please use right terms from next time, "Good articles" mean<br>
>>>>>> entirely different thing in Wikipedia. <a href="http://enwp.org/WP:GA" target="_blank">http://enwp.org/WP:GA</a><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> Robinson Crusoe Economy<<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robinson_Crusoe_Economy" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robinson_Crusoe_Economy</a>><br>
>>>>>>> -Another redirect, 'economy' is in lower-case.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Theo,<br>
>>>>>> You got it wrong on that alone to best of my knowledge, probably you<br>
>>>>>> did it too fast. Its probably the lone GA which got churned out of the<br>
>>>>>> program and we could call it a lone success among several other things.<br>
>>>>>> Wish that editor continues wiki editing.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> --<br>
>>>>>> Regards<br>
>>>>>> Srikanth.L<br>
>>>>>><br>
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