[Wikimediaindia-l] Administrative maps of India and states.

Wed Jun 8 13:00:17 UTC 2011

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 5:50 PM, CherianTinu Abraham
<tinucherian at gmail.com>wrote:

> By officially lobbying to release such data with the census board and
> Goverment PRDs to the public domain.

I suggest putting up a project proposal on Wiki  at
http://wiki.wikimedia.in/Projects:2011-12
and signing up as a volunteer or interested party would help.

Cheers
Arjun

>
> -Tinu Cherian
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 5:27 PM, Naveen Francis <naveenpf at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Tinu,
>>
>> How can chapter help in this ?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Naveen Francis
>>
>>
>> On 8 June 2011 16:25, CherianTinu Abraham <tinucherian at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Even I have tried to reach them on all these fronts and didn't work !
>>>
>>> If the India chapter wants to help us on this, there is nothing more to
>>> make a few like us very happy ! :)
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Tinu Cherian
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Naveen Francis <naveenpf at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> I have send a mail to them; as always no reply from them.
>>>>
>>>> Posted the same request on the wall of Census2011
>>>>
>>>> http://www.facebook.com/Census2011
>>>>
>>>> If you have fb account try to convey the same message on facebook wall;
>>>> then they will notice and respond back if we are lucky.
>>>> It has worked for few sites .
>>>>
>>>> till then let us use this pdf as the base.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Naveen Francis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 8 June 2011 14:54, Gautam John <gautam at prathambooks.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Ravi:
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally, I am all for Fair Dealing/Use activism but the problem has
>>>>> been with the folk on Commons, no? That they keep deleting stuff?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>>
>>>>> Gautam
>>>>> ________
>>>>> http://social.prathambooks.org/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 8 June 2011 14:51, Ravishankar <ravidreams at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sometime before, we used the word meanings from a technical glossary
>>>>>> provided by Tamil Virtual University for the Tamil Wiktionary project. Our
>>>>>> rational is that only the presentation can be copyrighted and not the word
>>>>>> or meaning. If the word or meaning itself is copyrighted, then there is no
>>>>>> point in providing that word itself. Two years later after this initiative,
>>>>>> we got the glossary donated to us formally. So, the copyright issue doesn't
>>>>>> arise any more.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Most Governments and public institutions do mean to provide data for
>>>>>> public use though they are not aware of Wikipedia compatible license. We can
>>>>>> try contacting them and hope to get a favourable response. But, the legal
>>>>>> and bureaucratic hurdles need not stop us from delaying our initiatives for
>>>>>> too long. While I do understand the legal and philosophical significance of
>>>>>> proper license to publish things, sometimes we also need to be bold and use
>>>>>> things for larger good. Governments have many other jobs than suing us
>>>>>> everyday !
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ravi
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 10:48 AM, Gautam John <gautam at prathambooks.org
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Vickram, in my opinion and that of a friend, asking for a voluntary
>>>>>>> license (18,19,30A) along with the fact that it is a transformative
>>>>>>> use is probably the best bet. If not, fair dealing but that does
>>>>>>> leave
>>>>>>> us open to a legal challenge. Aside from this, there is the issue
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> even if we did get a license, we then do not have the ability to
>>>>>>> re-license it out under a CC-BY-SA license as required by Wikipedia
>>>>>>> and that would also run afoul of the fair dealing clause.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gautam
>>>>>>> ________
>>>>>>> http://social.prathambooks.org/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 8 June 2011 05:17, Vickram Crishna <vvcrishna at radiophony.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 1:13 AM, Gautam John <
>>>>>>> gautam at prathambooks.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> On 8 June 2011 01:03, Vickram Crishna <vvcrishna at radiophony.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> My reading is that the Census Authority is very much a part of
>>>>>>> >> government. A question that I have been thinking about is whether
>>>>>>> >> census data (in the raw form and not the presentation) is capable
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> >> being copyrighted.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Aside from the supposition that the raw data is not in fact
>>>>>>> copyrightable in
>>>>>>> > the first place, which is probably true, even if never tested, the
>>>>>>> law
>>>>>>> > clearly provides for grant of permission for data to be represented
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> > another form, such as sound or visual forms. It seems clear that
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> > provisions of copyright (the sections are too tediously long and
>>>>>>> legally
>>>>>>> > worded to reproduce here) are precisely applicable only to the form
>>>>>>> in which
>>>>>>> > the information is presented by the author(s). Moreover, if the
>>>>>>> presentation
>>>>>>> > of census data as published by the CA is in fact taken to be a
>>>>>>> design form
>>>>>>> > as defined by the Design Act 1911 (but to be frank I haven't looked
>>>>>>> at what
>>>>>>> > that creature is), then the copyright ceases as soon as 50 copies
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> > circulated, which has obviously already happened if the data is
>>>>>>> online.
>>>>>>> > I believe that mapped data represents precisely such alternate
>>>>>>> forms,
>>>>>>> > especially if it is dynamically presented (but even if it is not).
>>>>>>> Making it
>>>>>>> > dynamic is of course a highly useful form, one that I do not
>>>>>>> believe the
>>>>>>> > census authority has yet conceived. The census authority cannot
>>>>>>> refuse
>>>>>>> > permission for such presentation. If they do not publish the
>>>>>>> information as
>>>>>>> > is planned by our colleagues, then their copyright effectively
>>>>>>> lapses in any
>>>>>>> > case, for which proof an advertisement saying that (ie that no
>>>>>>> mapped data
>>>>>>> > as has been proposed has been published) must be published in a
>>>>>>> popular
>>>>>>> > newspaper (in English newspaper, for English language mapping,
>>>>>>> vernacular
>>>>>>> > for vernacular mapping). Unfortunately, it says nothing (that I can
>>>>>>> find)
>>>>>>> > about a public announcement on the Net, so maybe this advertisement
>>>>>>> stuff in
>>>>>>> > newspapers is the only path.
>>>>>>> > It seems that one must apply in the prescribed form for licensing
>>>>>>> > permission, but also note that it is not possible to refuse
>>>>>>> permission for
>>>>>>> > such applications, if the end use is scientific research or
>>>>>>> educational, and
>>>>>>> > also for non-commercial purposes, provided the end use is in the
>>>>>>> form of a
>>>>>>> > translation. However, this permission is only automatic after 3 and
>>>>>>> 7 years
>>>>>>> > (subject to relevant conditions) from the date of first
>>>>>>> publication. Even
>>>>>>> > here, I put it that the date of first publication is the date when
>>>>>>> the first
>>>>>>> > Census was published, and not the current census. I think that
>>>>>>> would take it
>>>>>>> > back to the early 20th century, and perhaps that might also mean
>>>>>>> that the
>>>>>>> > government does not (heh, heh) in fact have the right to exclusive
>>>>>>> copyright
>>>>>>> > of census data (even for the 'upgraded' 60 year copyright).
>>>>>>> > The relevant clauses are:
>>>>>>> > 1. Specificity: Sec 14
>>>>>>> > 2. Design: Sec 15(2)
>>>>>>> > 3. Government ownership: Sec 17(d) and (dd)
>>>>>>> > 4. Compulsory licensing: Sec 31 (note that the RoC may assign some
>>>>>>> copyright
>>>>>>> > fee payable to the government, but prima facie it is unlikely they
>>>>>>> will do
>>>>>>> > so in this case)
>>>>>>> > 5. Automatic permission for translations etc: Sec 32 (sec 5(b)
>>>>>>> specifically
>>>>>>> > provides for 'broadcasting')
>>>>>>> > 6. Automatic permission for technical stuff: Sec 32A
>>>>>>> > 7. Right to broadcast: Sec 37 (worth checking!)
>>>>>>> > 8. Automatic visual recording for teaching: Sec 39
>>>>>>> > 9. Possible challenge to government copyright of census data: Sec
>>>>>>> 44
>>>>>>> > (register of copyrights: quite possible that the census information
>>>>>>> has not
>>>>>>> > been registered under the Act, and if so makes it impossible for
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> > government to take action against any form of infringement - sec
>>>>>>> 50A
>>>>>>> > provides for publication of registrations in the Gazette)
>>>>>>> > 10. Fair use: Sec 52 a(i) etc
>>>>>>> > --
>>>>>>> > Vickram
>>>>>>> > Fool On The Hill
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>
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