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Pois é, é exatamente esse o ponto atual da discussão: criar uma
forma de legitimar as entrevistas a ponto de que elas sejam
consideradas fontes fiáveis. E um dos pontos (não o único) é saber
se as gravações são verdadeiras. Em uma sugestão meio brainstorming,
sugeri a partir das políticas atuais (ou seja, sem ter que criar ou
modificar nenhuma política atual) o uso do Wikinews para as
entrevistas, usando a política da reportagem original. Conteúdo
original é atualmente proibido na Wikipedia, mas não no Wikinews.
Seguiria aquela linha do trabalho que você vem fazendo aqui no
Planalto. Além disso, podia-se utilizar o conceito de proofreading,
como fazemos no Wikisource, em que um outro editor confere se a
transcrição corresponde à gravação original, carregada lá no
Commons. Se isso não for o bastante, tem a política de
credenciamento, pela qual somente editores já experientes, com
notícias publicadas e avaliadas pela comunidade, poderiam ter esse
caráter de reportagem original como fonte fiável. O Achal, que é um
pesquisador experiente, foi contratado para fazer as tais
entrevistas, e esse papel seria feito pelo tal repórter credenciado.
<br>
<br>
Estão achando que eu estou querendo dar "enganar" a
[[:w:pt:WP:NPI|Nada de pesquisa inédita]], mas francamente estava
apenas pensando de maneira geral, sem me restringir à Wikipedia. O
problema é suportar conteúdo não publicado, e enciclopédia não é o
que vem à minha cabeça para essa finalidade. Tive a oportunidade de
ver o vídeo, de assistir à apresentação do Achal e trocar umas
ideias com ele. E mantenho minha opinião. Acho que o mais apropriado
é publicar o áudio no Commons, com a transcrição no Wikinews, adotar
todas as providências necessárias para tornar a entrevista fiável e
então usá-la como fonte para a Wikipedia. Se a Folha faz a mesma
entrevista e publica (vejam só: sem alterar o conteúdo, trazendo
apenas a transcrição da entrevista - fonte primária), nós aceitamos
como fonte. Por que com o Wikinews não pode? E também não defendo
que todo o conteúdo do Wikinews sirva, mas apenas aquele que cumprir
todas as exigências atuais (WP:FF, WP:V), que pode ser identificado
por uma categoria (transcluída de predef ou não), do tipo
"Reportagens fiáveis" ou algo que o valha.<br>
<br>
Bem, opiniões são bem vindas, e inclusive podem ser lançadas
diretamente na página do projeto:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research_talk:Oral_Citations">http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research_talk:Oral_Citations</a><br>
<br>
CB<br>
<br>
Em 09/08/2011 19:44, nevio carlos de alarcão escreveu:
<blockquote
cite="mid:CANXPwJF9NurkD0d=nP38fWN+YjSL_P8vTaCr_UekcgoQsMRqdQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin-top: 0px;
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.8ex;
border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);
border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex; ">
Once routinely questioned about its reliability — what do you
mean, anyone can edit it? — the site is now used every month by
upwards of 400 million people worldwide.</blockquote>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="georgia, 'times new
roman', times, serif" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 22px;"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="georgia, 'times new
roman', times, serif" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 22px;">Desculpe, mas o
fato de ser usado por mais de 400 milhões de pessoas não
significa ser menos questionado sobre sua confiabilidade. </span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="georgia, 'times new
roman', times, serif" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 22px;"><br>
</span></font></div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin-top: 0px;
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.8ex;
border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);
border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex; ">
...recordings were then uploaded and linked to the article as
sources, and suddenly an article that seems like it could be a
personal riff looks a bit more academic.</blockquote>
<div> </div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="georgia, 'times new
roman', times, serif" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 22px;">E considero os
argumentos do Achal bastante questionáveis. O filme já foi
divulgado aqui na lista - Gostei do trabalho. Mas seria
preciso uma forma de garantir a veracidade de gravações. Se
elas fossem provenientes de broadcast seriam mais
aceitáveis. Cairíamos na questão do poder que ele levanta -
e aceita.</span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="georgia, 'times new
roman', times, serif" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 22px;"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="georgia, 'times new
roman', times, serif" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 22px;">Att</span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="georgia, 'times new
roman', times, serif" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 22px;"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="georgia, 'times new
roman', times, serif" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="font-size: 15px; line-height: 22px;"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">Em 9 de gosto de 2011 18:27, Carolina
Rossini <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:crossini@wikimedia.org">crossini@wikimedia.org</a>></span>
escreveu:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<span style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0, 0,
0);font-family:'Times New
Roman';font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-size:medium"><span
style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family:georgia, 'times
new roman', times,
serif;font-size:10px;line-height:15px;text-align:left">
<h6
style="margin:0px;color:black;font-size:1em;line-height:1.4em;font-weight:normal;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;text-transform:uppercase"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/08/business/media/a-push-to-redefine-knowledge-at-wikipedia.html?scp=1&sq=wikimania&st=cse"
target="_blank">http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/08/business/media/a-push-to-redefine-knowledge-at-wikipedia.html?scp=1&sq=wikimania&st=cse</a></h6>
<h6
style="margin:0px;color:black;font-size:1em;line-height:1.4em;font-weight:normal;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;text-transform:uppercase"><br>
</h6>
<h6
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;color:black;font-size:1em;line-height:1.4em;font-weight:normal;font-family:arial,
helvetica, sans-serif;text-transform:uppercase">
LINK BY LINK</h6>
<h1
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:8px;margin-left:0px;color:rgb(0,
0,
0);font-size:2.4em;line-height:1.083em;font-weight:normal">When
Knowledge Isn’t Written, Does It Still Count?</h1>
<h6
style="margin-top:2px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:2px;margin-left:0px;color:rgb(128,
128,
128);font-size:1em;line-height:1.2em;font-weight:normal;font-family:arial,
helvetica, sans-serif">
By<span> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="author"
href="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/c/noam_cohen/index.html?inline=nyt-per"
title="More Articles by Noam Cohen"
style="color:rgb(0, 66, 118);text-decoration:none"
target="_blank">NOAM COHEN</a></h6>
<h6
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;color:rgb(128,
128,
128);font-size:1em;line-height:1.2em;font-weight:normal;font-family:arial,
helvetica, sans-serif">
Published: August 7, 2011</h6>
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<p
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:1em;margin-left:0px;font-size:1.5em;line-height:1.467em;color:rgb(0,
0, 0)">
HAIFA, Israel</p>
<p
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:1em;margin-left:0px;font-size:1.5em;line-height:1.467em;color:rgb(0,
0, 0)">“MAKING fun of<span> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/wikipedia/index.html?inline=nyt-org"
title="More articles about Wikipedia."
style="color:rgb(0, 66,
118);text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">Wikipedia</a><span> </span>is
so 2007,” a French journalist said recently to Sue
Gardner, the executive director of the foundation
that runs the Wikipedia project.</p>
<p
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:1em;margin-left:0px;font-size:1.5em;line-height:1.467em;color:rgb(0,
0, 0)">And so Ms. Gardner, in turn, told an
auditorium full of Wikipedia contributors and
supporters on Thursday in Haifa, Israel, the host
city for the seventh annual Wikimania conference,
where meetings and presentations focus on the
world’s most used, and perhaps least understood,
online reference work.</p>
<p
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:1em;margin-left:0px;font-size:1.5em;line-height:1.467em;color:rgb(0,
0, 0)">Once routinely questioned about its
reliability — what do you mean, anyone can edit it?
— the site is now used every month by upwards of 400
million people worldwide. But with influence and
respect come responsibility, and lately Wikipedia
has been<span> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="link to Times article on criticism"
href="http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/31/business/media/31link.html"
style="color:rgb(0, 66,
118);text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">criticized
from without and within</a><span> </span>for
reflecting a Western, male-dominated mindset similar
to the perspective behind the encyclopedias it has
replaced.</p>
<p
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:1em;margin-left:0px;font-size:1.5em;line-height:1.467em;color:rgb(0,
0, 0)">Seeing Wikipedia as The Man, in so many
words, is so 2011.</p>
<p
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:1em;margin-left:0px;font-size:1.5em;line-height:1.467em;color:rgb(0,
0, 0)">
And that’s a problem for an encyclopedia that wants
to grow. Some critics of Wikipedia believe that the
whole Western tradition of footnotes and sourced
articles needs to be rethought if Wikipedia is going
to continue to gather converts beyond its current
borders. And that, in turn, invites an entirely new
debate about what constitutes knowledge in different
parts of the world and how a Western institution
like Wikipedia can capitalize on it.</p>
<p
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:1em;margin-left:0px;font-size:1.5em;line-height:1.467em;color:rgb(0,
0, 0)">Achal Prabhala, an adviser to Ms. Gardner’s
Wikimedia Foundation who lives and writes in
Bangalore, India, has made perhaps the most
trenchant criticism in a video project, “<a
moz-do-not-send="true" title="link to video"
href="http://vimeo.com/26469276"
style="color:rgb(0, 66,
118);text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">People
are Knowledge</a>,” that he presented in Haifa
(along with its clunky subtitle, “Exploring
alternative methods of citation for Wikipedia”).</p>
<p
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:1em;margin-left:0px;font-size:1.5em;line-height:1.467em;color:rgb(0,
0, 0)">The film, which was made largely with a
$20,000 grant from the Wikimedia Foundation, spends
time showing what has been lost to Wikipedia because
of stickling rules of citation and verification. If
Wikipedia purports to collect the “sum of all human
knowledge,” in the words of one of its founders,
Jimmy Wales, that, by definition, means more than
printed knowledge, Mr. Prabhala said.</p>
<p
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:1em;margin-left:0px;font-size:1.5em;line-height:1.467em;color:rgb(0,
0, 0)">In the case of dabba kali, a children’s game
played in the Kerala state of India, there was a
Wikipedia article in the local language, Malayalam,
that included photos, a drawing and a detailed
description of the rules, but no sources to back up
what was written. Other than, of course, the 40
million people who played it as children.</p>
<p
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:1em;margin-left:0px;font-size:1.5em;line-height:1.467em;color:rgb(0,
0, 0)">There is no doubt, he said, that the article
would have been deleted from English Wikipedia if it
didn’t have any sources to cite. Those are the rules
of the game, and those are the rules he would like
to change, or at least bend, or, if all else fails,
work around.</p>
<p
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:1em;margin-left:0px;font-size:1.5em;line-height:1.467em;color:rgb(0,
0, 0)">“There is this desire to grow Wikipedia in
parts of the world,” he said, adding that “if we
don’t have a more generous and expansive citation
policy, the current one will prove to be a massive
roadblock that you literally can’t get past. There
is a very finite amount of citable material, which
means a very finite number of articles, and there
will be no more.”</p>
<p
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:1em;margin-left:0px;font-size:1.5em;line-height:1.467em;color:rgb(0,
0, 0)">Mr. Prabhala, 38, who grew up in India and
then attended American universities, has been an
activist on issues of intellectual property,
starting with the efforts in South Africa to free up
drugs that treat H.I.V. In the film, he gives other
examples of subjects — an alcohol produced in a
village, Ga-Sabotlane, in Limpopo, South Africa, and
a popular hopscotch-type children’s game,
tshere-tshere — beyond print documentation and
therefore beyond Wikipedia’s true-and-tried method.</p>
<p
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:1em;margin-left:0px;font-size:1.5em;line-height:1.467em;color:rgb(0,
0, 0)">There are whole cultures, he said, that have
little to no printed material to cite as proof about
the way life is lived.</p>
<p
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:1em;margin-left:0px;font-size:1.5em;line-height:1.467em;color:rgb(0,
0, 0)">“Publishing is a system of power and I mean
that in a completely pleasant, accepting sense,” he
said mischievously. “But it leaves out people.”</p>
<p
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:1em;margin-left:0px;font-size:1.5em;line-height:1.467em;color:rgb(0,
0, 0)">But Mr. Prabhala offers a solution: he and
the video’s directors, Priya Sen and Zen Marie,
spoke with people in African and Indian villages
either in person or over the phone and had them
describe basic activities. These recordings were
then uploaded and linked to the article as sources,
and suddenly an article that seems like it could be
a personal riff looks a bit more academic.</p>
<p
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:1em;margin-left:0px;font-size:1.5em;line-height:1.467em;color:rgb(0,
0, 0)">For example, in his<span> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" title="Interview with
Philipine Moremi"
href="http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PeopleAreKnowledge_Mogkope_Interview2.ogg"
style="color:rgb(0, 66,
118);text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">interview
with a South African villager</a><span> </span>who
explained how to make the alcoholic drink, morula,
she repeatedly says that it is best if she
demonstrates the process. When the fruit is ready,
said the villager, Philipine Moremi, according to
the project’s transcript of her phone conversation,
“we pry them open. We are going to show you how it
is done. Once they are peeled, we seal them to
ferment and then we drink.” The idea of treating
personal testimony as a source for Wikipedia is
still controversial, and reflects the concerns that
dominated the encyclopedia project six years ago,
when arguably its very existence was threatened.</p>
<p
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:1em;margin-left:0px;font-size:1.5em;line-height:1.467em;color:rgb(0,
0, 0)">After a series of hoaxes, culminating in a
Wikipedia article in 2005 that maligned the
newspaper editor John Seigenthaler for no
discernible reason other than because a Wikipedia
contributor could, the site tried to ensure that
every statement could be traced to a source.</p>
<p
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:1em;margin-left:0px;font-size:1.5em;line-height:1.467em;color:rgb(0,
0, 0)">Then there is the rule “no original
research,” which was meant to say that Wikipedia
doesn’t care if you are writing about the subway
station you visit every day, find someone who has
written reliably on the color of the walls there.</p>
<p
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:1em;margin-left:0px;font-size:1.5em;line-height:1.467em;color:rgb(0,
0, 0)">“The natural thing is getting more and more
accurate, locking down articles, raising the bar on
sources,” said Andrew Lih, an associate professor of
journalism at the University of Southern California,
who was an early contributor to Wikipedia and has
written a history of its rise. “Isn’t it great we
have so many texts online?”</p>
<p
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:1em;margin-left:0px;font-size:1.5em;line-height:1.467em;color:rgb(0,
0, 0)">But what works for the most developed
societies, he said, won’t necessarily work for
others. “Lots of knowledge is not Googleable,” he
said, “and is not in a digital form.”</p>
<p
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:1em;margin-left:0px;font-size:1.5em;line-height:1.467em;color:rgb(0,
0, 0)">Mr. Lih said that he could see the Wikipedia
project suddenly becoming energized by the process
of documenting cultural practices around the world,
or down the street.</p>
<p
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:1em;margin-left:0px;font-size:1.5em;line-height:1.467em;color:rgb(0,
0, 0)">Perhaps Mr. Prabhala’s most challenging
argument is that by being text-focused, and being
locked into the Encyclopedia Britannica model,
Wikipedia risks being behind the times.</p>
<p
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:1em;margin-left:0px;font-size:1.5em;line-height:1.467em;color:rgb(0,
0, 0)">An 18-year-old is comfortable using “objects
of trust that have been created on the Internet,” he
said, and “Wikipedia isn’t taking advantage of
that.” And, he added, “it is quite possible that for
the 18-year-old of today that Wikipedia looks like
his father’s project. Or the kind of thing his
father might be interested in.”</p>
<p
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:1em;margin-left:0px;font-size:1.5em;line-height:1.467em;color:rgb(0,
0, 0)">Ouch.</p>
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<div><font face="trebuchet ms,sans-serif" size="1"><b>Carolina
Rossini</b></font></div>
<div><font face="trebuchet ms,sans-serif" size="1">Brazil
Catalyst Project</font></div>
<div><font face="trebuchet ms,sans-serif" size="1"><i>Wikimedia
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839 6885 x6747</a></font></div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
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target="_blank"><font face="trebuchet ms,sans-serif"
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{+}Nevinho<br>
Venha para o Movimento Colaborativo <a moz-do-not-send="true"
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!!<br>
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