Ok.
Let's make an example:
KGS website. Official website.
I would check that a monument is in the KGS inventory.
I go in the map in German (
http://kgs-gis.admin.ch/kgs.php?lang=de), I
would find the "Altes Zollhaus" (
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_Kulturg%C3%BCter_von_nationaler_Bede…
).
I select "Kulturgüter" and I cannot find it, I have only the "Dazio
Vecchio" with the German description but no presence of "Altes Zollhaus".
I
don't know the Italian language, so I suppose to have not my monument.
The same in French (
http://kgs-gis.admin.ch/kgs.php?lang=fr).
I am not sure and I would find it in the search box (
http://www.bevoelkerungsschutz.admin.ch/internet/bs/de/home/themen/kgs/kgs_…
).
In the search box I put "Altes Zollhaus". Fantastic, I have a good list of
Altes Zollhaus in Argau, in Solothurn and in Fribourg but no one in Ticino.
So I am invited to cancel the item because it's not present in the KGS
Inventar or I am invited to integrate it in Solothurn's list.
So KGS, the official and national inventory of cultural heritage,
translates all, but never the name of the monument!
This is a fact.
And what is a mess is that *also the articles in Wikipedia have no
translation in the name*, for instance "Propsteikirche Santi Pietro e
Paolo<http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiesa_dei_Santi_Pietro_e_Paolo_%28Bi…
in the German list is linked to "
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiesa_dei_Santi_Pietro_e_Paolo_%28Biasca%29&q…quot;.
The German Wikipedia article has the name official name in the original
language but the list has translated it!
So it would be difficult also to find the correct article in Wikipedia!
On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Ilario Valdelli <valdelli(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
Sorry,
consider that in Switzerland there is not a "normal" situation. Go in
detail and consider the organizational problem.
At the moment the problem is not to have a contest with a minimal list
(this is not a big deal), but to have a contest with 4 different lists not
synchronized.
It means that what see a French participant is not what see a German
participant. In addition the integration with tools is working bad!
So "Houston, we have a problem".
I am not saying "in my opinion I think that it would be better to do
that..." but I am saying that we have 2 weeks and there are some problems
in the lists and the organization of the contest in Switzerland risks to be
a *big nightmare*.
So what I am expecting from the persons answering to my problem is not an
"in my opinion", but a solution to these problems!
The list of monuments is not split in 4 languages but the same list is
translated in 4 languages and the content of any list is different from
another (I repeat, the content of any list is different from another). The
same translations are not correct because they use the address as name of
the monuments.
So, please, don't focus the problem on the KGS number, putting the KGS
number doesn't solve the other problems.
I agree that it would be better that the French speaker have in the list:
"Chapelle de Saint Léonard" and not the name in German... it would be
really great!
But the problem is that he cannot see the monument or that he see another
think that is not the monument (may be the address translated as name of
the monument).
How fix the problem? You are suggesting to correct all lists in the 4
languages... in 4 weeks and to expect that anyone will do it also
afterwards.
I would say to consider a MASTER list and to rollout it in the 4 languages
because it would be more efficient to manage.
Today English list <> German list <> French list <> Italian list.
Now the problem is not to have a Wiki Loves Monuments with a minimal list,
but to have a WLM "not manageable".
-----> In the point of view of the organization this is a big nightmare.
<--------
On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 10:03 PM, Maarten Dammers <maarten(a)mdammers.nl>wrote;wrote:
Hi Ilario,
Op 16-8-2012 16:54, Ilario Valdelli schreef:
Yes, you used the Swiss official list and you did it correctly. But it
has been generated some years ago and there are
some municipalities not
existing anymore and the ISOS villages not completed (missed kgs number).
I suggested some time ago to get in touch with the agency to see if we
would be able to get more recent data. Did someone follow up on that? Would
be the best way to go. For the French and German lists
http://toolserver.org/~**multichill/temp/queries/**
erfgoed/KGS_nr_to_add_fr.txt<http://toolserver.org/%7Emultichill/temp/qu…
http://toolserver.org/~**multichill/temp/queries/**
erfgoed/KGS_nr_to_add_de.txt<http://toolserver.org/%7Emultichill/temp/qu…
be integrated. Maybe you can first work on that?
Please read above.
As for adding an additional column. I don't
think that's a good idea,
you'll have to be practical. If it's not a given name you probably want to
translate it. We now have "St. Leonhard Chapel" (en) "Kapelle St.
Leonhard"
(de) and "Chapelle de Saint Léonard" (fr). That's exactly what I would
expect as a reader.
Maarten
No, no, no. The problem is that at the moment an English speaker can find
"St. Leonhard Chapel" and the German speaker cannot find it or find another
think with the same KGS number.
--
Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
Tel: +41764821371
http://www.wikimedia.ch
--
Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
Tel: +41764821371
http://www.wikimedia.ch