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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Mav said</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Anthere wrote:<BR>>><I>Unless I seriously missed something, the <BR></I>>><I>comment RK made just above is a rather old one. <BR></I><BR>>RK has been saying acting in a similar manor since the day that I first <BR>>arrived at Wikipedia nearly two years ago. So a comment he made in July isn't <BR>>that old in my book. The point is that he has not improved and continues to <BR>>act badly. <BR><BR></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>Of course Mav. You are right. I did not say his current behavior was ok.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>However, the fact is</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>RK has been there since (say) 2 years</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>During these two years, he has been behaving in a way many people here find not acceptable</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Recently, he has received a serious warning; somehow, he is currently on probation (on a watch list ?)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It is important to consider whether the warning had an effect or not, hence to *compare* his behavior since the warning, to what it was *before* the warning.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If the warning did not change anything, then this kind of warning is useless with RK.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I personnaly think it made a difference. He is (I think) not calling for banning anymore, he is not calling people vandals, he is not insulting them so rudely. Or (in case I miss something), he is doing it less than before. As Cimon pointed out, he is careful not to use some trigger words.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Before, he said to some people they were nazi (or equivalent comments). This is direct insult, with little backup provided usually. So, a pure attack.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Now, he says "your comments might be seen as anti-semit by some people". Well, it is more polite; it does not say "I *am* bad", it says "some people consider I am, as regards their personal frame of reference". I suppose he could even cite people to support his claim.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Of course, I disagree, but I am left the opportunity not to comment this (people are free to have an opinion), while being accused of being nazi somehow force someone to justify herself, to *prove* she is not.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial size=2>Eh :-) </FONT>Ultimately... writing "Anthere is a nazi" is taking position. Forcing opinion. Closing the discussion. Bad.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Writing, "according to most american rabbins, Anthere is holding antisemit comments" is ...is... is...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Is that not what we are *precisely* doing on Wikipedia ?</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Okay, my position is that he has been making efforts, and that should be recognised. That is why, regardless of other comments he made, I think I had to mention that the summary you copied was anterior to the warning. I would have felt dishonnest with wikipedians if I had not mentionned this fact. </FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This said, the fact he made efforts is good.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Whether the efforts are sufficient is another matter.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>-----------------</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I would like to know whether some of you have noticed shifts in the way other wikipedians (you perhaps) were talking after a while. The other day, in an icq discussion, someone wrote to me (on a subject irrelevant to Wikipedia), "I think this is a bad idea, but others appear to think differently". I am ***sure*** that two months ago, that person would have just said "this is a bad idea."</FONT></DIV><BR></DIV><p><hr SIZE=1>
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