<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 6.0.4630.0">
<TITLE>Re: Jacques Delson and Helga-ism </TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->
<P ALIGN=LEFT><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">Stan said </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P ALIGN=LEFT><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">you've fallen into the "I'm a</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P ALIGN=LEFT><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">professional" trap</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN></P>
<P ALIGN=LEFT><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">**You are right</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"> <FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">–</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New"> on the other hand, when I first started working on the</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"> <FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">‘</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">pedia (I am testing the waters after a hiatus of</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New"> about 8 months, but contributed regularly for a long period before that, and also collaborated on many of the initial discussions on standards, etc.)</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">, people tended to trust each other</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">’</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">s areas of expertise</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"> <FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">–</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New"> whether</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"> <FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">professional or amateur. The thing I have found is that people who are interested in good articles can usually tell good work, and a good professional will often bow to a better informed amateur</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"> <FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">-- or vice versa. In the case of these particular articles, I really do suggest that you read the</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"> <FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">discussion that</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">’</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">s been taking place. You seem to have gathered that I am in a very small minority, but if you read the discussions, you will see that I have qualified my discussion, been very inclusive of other viewpoints, and have provided reasons for my edits.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"> <FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"> </SPAN></P>
<P ALIGN=LEFT><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">Stan said:</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P ALIGN=LEFT><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">But it would take some adroit writing and citing to</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P ALIGN=LEFT><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">produce something that wouldn't be mangled by the semi-educated eager</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P ALIGN=LEFT><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">to promulgate the wrong things they were told by incompetent and</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P ALIGN=LEFT><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">biased CS professors, so I don't tend to work on those articles very</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P ALIGN=LEFT><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">much. It's an unfortunate weakness of Wikipedia, but no amount of</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P ALIGN=LEFT><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">fulminating about it is going to change things; what you and I</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P ALIGN=LEFT><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">experience in our respective fields is a predictable consequence of</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P ALIGN=LEFT><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">the rules under which Wikipedia operates. It's motivating me to</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P ALIGN=LEFT><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">ponder ideas for new rules that would address your complaints</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P ALIGN=LEFT><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">better, but it's tricky and I don't have any good ideas yet.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN></P>
<P ALIGN=LEFT><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">**That</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">’</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">s true to some extent, but remember, Wikipedia isn</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">’</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">t paper. It isn</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">’</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">t the place for original research, but</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"> <FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">there are tons of examples where we make statements that mention growing trends and new approaches. And if we know more on a subject, don</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">’</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">t we have some sort of obligation to share that knowledge and make wikipedia better than other online encyclopedias? A</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">fter all, even the famous Helga did a great deal of eventual good in that she managed to get articles on issues like the Heimatvertriebene included and to shake several of us into checking facts and neutralizing the Polish-German borders.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"> <FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">THOSE articles certainly contain lots of stuff you might not see all in the same place. </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P ALIGN=LEFT><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Courier New">Cheers -- JHK</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN></P>
</BODY>
</HTML>