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<DIV><SPAN class=643101814-17032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Steve,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=643101814-17032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=643101814-17032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>It's
the TITLE that needs changing, i.e., the NAME of the topic.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=643101814-17032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=643101814-17032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The
topic is not the point of view. The territory is not the
map.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=643101814-17032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=643101814-17032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I
suggest:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=643101814-17032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>*
leave the raw notes on Metawikipedia or on someone's Wikipedia talk
page</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=643101814-17032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>*
create an article with a bland name like [[Violence against Kurds]].
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=643101814-17032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=643101814-17032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Didn't
we settle the article names for Middle-eastern violence with article titles like
[[Israeli attacks on Arabs]] or [[Terrorism against
Israel]]?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=643101814-17032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=643101814-17032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The
point is: we need to find a NAME for the topic with does not *in itself* present
a point of view about the topic.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=643101814-17032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=643101814-17032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>For
example, the US "invaded" Afghanistan a couple of years ago. Whether that
invasion was IN FACT an "attack" on a sovereign state is a debatable point. So
the article was renamed "US invasion of Afghanistan". </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=643101814-17032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=643101814-17032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Why?
Because everyone, regardless of their POV, could agree that US forces did
"invade", i.e., enter the borders without permission. When Saudi Arabia allowed
US forces to use bases on their territory, no one said the US "invaded" Saudi
Arabia.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=643101814-17032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=643101814-17032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The
"US invasion of Afghanistan" article did discuss the legality or illegality on
the invasion of Afghanistan, without coming to any conclusion that would justify
the Wikipedia calling it an "attack on Afghanistan".</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=643101814-17032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=643101814-17032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Please, Zoe, Steve, et al., let's try to find neutral-sounding names for
articles.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=643101814-17032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=643101814-17032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Uncle
Ed</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Stevertigo
[mailto:stevertigo@attbi.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 14, 2003 9:47
PM<BR><B>To:</B> wikien-l@wikipedia.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [WikiEN-l]
Turks and Kurds<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Zoe: "Although I agree that the subject deserves an article, any article
with this title cannot be NPOV."</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Your statements although brief, contain usually
at least one assumption. 1. That the subject being 'deserving' of an
article is even close to being in question, and that 2. such a thing cannot be
NPOV, simply because its controversial. It is what it is. Turks in
the late 90s killed far more Kurds than the Serb "Christians" were
killing Croat Muslims. The US sanctioned, supported, and suppressed it. It
further has relevance because the US reportedly was in the process of selling
out the Kurds to Turkey again, striking a deal to allow Turkey dominion over
certain sections in Northern Iraq that border Turkey.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>As for Danny's assertion, which Jim
seconded, that this is no place for notes, I don't see how some
structured notes are any different than an article in formation. There are two
ways of sculpting something: By building up, (like clay) or breaking down
(like chipping a marble). Im speaking as an artist, of course, but the analogy
is valid, I think. Of course, provided work gets done to
article-ize the page. Hence, time, which I did not have in abundance, while I
was taking notes. Not that I dont understand the usual concerns. </FONT></DIV>
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