[WikiEN-l] Civility poll results

[Marc Riddell]

on 8/11/09 8:47 PM, Emily Monroe at bluecaliocean at me.com wrote:

>> It is also human nature that everyone, at one time or another, feels
>> the need to speak frankly and forcefully. If that is met by hurt
>> cries of "you are being incivil", that is a detriment to open
>> discourse.
> 
> Well, then there's the issue of differing cultures and
> neuroatypicalities (such as people on the autistic spectrum), where
> some people actually don't know how to be polite in some environments.
> How do we deal with somebody from a different country? What about
> somebody who we suspect has, or claims to have, a neurological
> disability that affects how xy interact with others?* These are
> questions we must ask ourselves.
> 
> Emily
> 
> PS *These questions are rhetorical. You can answer them, but I don't
> expect anyone too.

These are excellent questions, Emily. And if (and I hope, when) a truly
honest, serious, well-supported effort is put into dealing with the
Project's culture, these types of questions, and the issues they raise, can
be a significant part of the discussion.

Marc

> On Aug 11, 2009, at 7:37 PM, Carcharoth wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:18 AM, FT2<ft2.wiki at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I'm openly in support of a strong civility ethos - but it can't be
>>> a gamed
>>> one where some can and others can't. A community like this can't
>>> have some
>>> who can do stuff with impunity and others who'll get blocked for
>>> the same
>>> stuff. A good ethos matters; a policy is just words in comparison.
>>> 
>>> The aim of a civility ethos/policy (if it can be said to have an
>>> aim) is
>>> roughly this:
>>> 
>>> - When people speak rudely, others tend to get defensive, feel
>>> attacked,
>>> and often over-react. Others get dragged in to the incipient
>>> drama to
>>> "defend" rather than to "resolve". It encourages "heat" and not
>>> "light" to
>>> do so.
>>> - Most users wish to contribute content. They see disputes as
>>> undesirable
>>> and an obstruction to that. When a dispute arises, it can poison
>>> the
>>> atmosphere or discourage or de-motivate others as a result.
>>> - People are realistic, they know there will be disagreement, often
>>> strongly. But seeing people behave like children and speaking in
>>> a rude
>>> offensive manner, may be demotivating. Especially, being spoken
>>> to that way
>>> can be.
>>> - Politeness - as an affirmative choice - tends to hold the
>>> emotional
>>> temperature down. It helps disputes to be resolved calmer if
>>> people are not
>>> uptight and heated. It may not stop users misbehaving (eg civil
>>> edit
>>> warring) but a general policy of disallowing disrespectful speech
>>> will
>>> almost always have some positive effect.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The thing about a policy is, it needs wide and level enforcement.
>>> How many
>>> of the current concerns, I wonder, would be addressed, if admins were
>>> actively expected to enact a high level of good conduct? If there
>>> were norms
>>> like "do not intervene in a dispute between others except to help
>>> settle it
>>> according to communal norms and support good quality resolution"?
>>> 
>>> While some poor conduct is unavoidable, a lot would be improved if
>>> more
>>> users considered themselves responsible for avoiding "heating"
>>> speech in
>>> favor of "lighting" speech. Especially, a double standard for
>>> admins (or
>>> arbs, or established content writers) is not okay - users have the
>>> right to
>>> expect more, not less, from such trusted users.
>> 
>> Maybe a tad too much jargon there?
>> 
>> It is also human nature that everyone, at one time or another, feels
>> the need to speak frankly and forcefully. If that is met by hurt cries
>> of "you are being incivil", that is a detriment to open discourse.
>> 
>> Carcharoth
>> 
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