[WikiEN-l] Armenian Genocide

[Wily D]

Independant from what?  It's certainly true I have a
scholarly/academic bias, but this is why we use "reliable sources".
"Alleged threats of the Turkish government"? I've no idea what this
refers to.  Something like what
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hrant_Dink this guy went through?  If
you're interested in the Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of
Armenia, there's already an article on it - I suppose that the
genocide spawned this is probably worth mentioning, but the article's
not topshape (a common problem in articles plagued by POV warriors).
Of course, ASALA is linked to in
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-Armenian_Genocide_timeline which may
well be a more appropriate place to discuss it.  Not surprisingly
what's probably the second most studied genocide in history has a lot
of daughter articles.

We're not talking about passing judgement on history.  We're talking
about accurately reporting the facts as they're currently understood
by the experts on the subject.  The holocaust gets mentioned because
it's the closest historical parallel - a state organised genocide with
near universal recognition as such.

Unless by "independant review" you mean "review by people who're
uninformed on the subject" independant review will come to the same
conclusion.  The number of people pushing the fringe position is
small, and the literature on the subject is unambigious.

In any event, although it's clear that White Cat's opinion is already
chisel'd in stone, I'd urge any spectators to review the source
material before forming any conclusions.

Cheers
WilyD

On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 12:03 PM, White Cat
<wikipedia.kawaii.neko at gmail.com> wrote:
> It isn't unheard of for people to completely disregard the views of the
>  other side on controversial topics which seems to be what is happening
>  here...
>
>  I don't know about the alleged threats of the Turkish Government... If such
>  exists I am sure it can be easily sourced - would make a fine article.
>
>  What I do know about is attacks by ASALA which committed various acts of
>  assassinations and bombings throughout Europe, the US and Middle East. If
>  one side is going as far as bombing civilians and assassinating diplomats
>  and their families to get their case accepted, I am sure they would have
>  also engaged in misinformation. Of course ASALA is not mentioned once in the
>  article. Can we completely disregard ASALA activity as a minority opinion?
>
>  Wikipedia does not pass judgement on history. We write about what is sourced
>  not what is *right*. I see the constant revival of the holocaust as a sign
>  of Godwin's law at work.
>
>  Here I was talking about getting uninvolved people reviewing the topic...
>  Thank you for verifying such a need. Article is in serious need of
>  independent review.
>
>     - White Cat
>
>
>
>  On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 6:38 PM, Wily D <wilydoppelganger at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  > Err, in the case the scholars of the subject made a collective
>  > statement that it was a genocide, rather than individually.  You can
>  > read their statement
>  > http://www.genocidewatch.org/TurkishPMIAGSOpenLetterreArmenia6-13-05.htm
>  > here if you're so inclined.
>  >
>  > But I've done some research myself, specifically since I got involved
>  > in the article by sourcing various claims (which is really my editing
>  > strength), and it's not particularly contraversial academically - I'll
>  > refer this statement by historians Torben Jorgensen and Matthias
>  > Bjornlund
>  >
>  > When it comes to the historical reality of the Armenian genocide,
>  > there is no "Armenian" or "Turkish" side of the "question," any more
>  > than there is a "Jewish" or a "German" side of the historical reality
>  > of the Holocaust: There is a scientific side, and an unscientific side
>  > acknowledgment or denial. In the case of the denial of the Armenian
>  > genocide, it is even founded on a massive effort of falsification,
>  > distortion, cleansing of archives, and direct threats initiated or
>  > supported by the Turkish state, making any "dialogue" with Turkish
>  > deniers highly problematic."
>  >
>  > Feel free to research the matter yourself, more constructive comments
>  > can be made by someone who's well informed than someone who's
>  > ill-informed.
>  >
>  > Cheers
>  > WilyD
>  >
>  >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>  WikiEN-l mailing list
>  WikiEN-l at lists.wikimedia.org
>  To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
>  https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>