On 12/20/07, doc <doc.wikipedia(a)ntlworld.com> wrote:
I've been increasingly noticing that when established users leave the
project (or decide to switch to a new account) an admin often deletes
their usertalk pages. When I've questioned these deletions as lacking
any basis in the speedy criteria, I've been pointed to [[m:right to
vanish]].
Now, let me start by saying I see cases where an IAR deletion of
usertalk pages might be the right thing to do: someone has account
associated with a real-life identity and they are being harassed off
wiki. Admins, and particularly OTRS, need some leeway here. However, as
a general practice of "delete on demand" I find it problematic.
Meta's "right to vanish" states ""Your user and talk pages, and
their
subpages, and other non-article pages that no others have substantively
contributed to and whose existence does not impact the project, may be
courtesy blanked or deleted."
Now that clearly excludes any routine deletion of talk pages of
established users, as others HAVE made substantial contributions.
Further, the existence of those talk pages may well "impact the project"
as conversation there will provide the context for decisions and posts
elsewhere. Indeed, deleting such pages may well be prejudicial to other
users. (A whole arbcom case, or deletion discussion, or a controversial
block, can depend on a few diffs in a talk page history.) Especially, as
are sometimes speaking of admin accounts.
The meta page also suggests that blanking may be an alternative.
As I say, I don't want to suggest that talkpages never be deleted. But
I'm concerned about the impression of some admins that users have a
"right" here - they don't. Or that the deleter has full discretion -
they don't. Any deletion is an exercise of IAR and must have really good
reason.
The problem is that, if this continues, those of us unhappy will have
little choice but to use DRV. But, if we do that, we'll also be drawing
attention to the rare cases where there is a genuine reason (which is
also why I will not give any examples here). Much better if we can send
a clear message that these deletions of long-standing contributors' talk
pages should not happen, unless there's really exceptional grounds (and
perhaps those few cases could be discussed among a few OTRS people to
check they are really necessary - and that selective deletion,
oversight, or blanking will not suffice).
The right to vanish is a right of contributors to leave, no questions
asked, it is not a right to pull all your correspondence from the file
and demand the employer shred every document you're ever signed.
Doc
I see the theoretical issue that Doc is raising here under the guidelines,
but I'm not convinced that deleting a user's talkpage typically creates any
problems as a practical matter, that would warrant our insisting on keeping
the page if the user really wants it gone. Have such deletions typically
raised any practical problems for us?
Newyorkbrad