[WikiEN-l] Possible legal violation in the use of a government seal?

[Benjamin Esham]

John Lee wrote:

> Is this particular image even eligible to be copyrighted, since it is just
> a photo of another work?

Hmm, perhaps not.  Even so, I think a {{PD-ineligible}} on the image page
wouldn't make a difference to the county government.  They don't seem to be
particularly familiar with Wikipedia, and the copyright status of the image
doesn't seem to be the issue at question.

> Unless the seal was created prior to the advent of copyright, if I'm not
> mistaken, it would be covered by copyright laws and thus the county would
> have a valid claim - we would only be allowed to use images of the seal
> under a claim of fair use.

I guess there are three issues here: the copyright on the photograph I took,
the copyright on the actual wood rendering I took a picture of, and the
ability to use the seal in any given situation.  My original inquiry to the
county regarded the first item, which they completely ignored, changing the
topic to the third item.

The seal is codified in law, which is necessarily public domain.  Suppose I
were to work from the law's definition of the seal and create an SVG file;
would that be considered public domain, since I only created a graphic from
a PD textual description?  Even then, the question remains of what I am
allowed to do with the image I created.

Does Wikipedia have any established guidelines on the legality of the use of
coats of arms and seals?

> But having said all that, you seem to have been referred to a law that has
> nothing to do with copyright - I'm not sure whether it applies to the
> Wikimedia Foundation or to other editors, since the servers and the legal
> entity are in Florida.

Indeed... ISTM that it wouldn't even be worth it for the county to attempt
to press charges against someone outside of New York.  I have only a vague
idea of how the Wikimedia servers' location factors in to such legal
matters.

> Maybe we could circumvent this whole problem by deleting the image and
> having some editor who does not live in Livingston reupload it. :p
> (Assuming, of course, there are no copyright issues.)

Honestly, it would be fine with me if someone deleted the image from
Commons, pending some sort of resolution to this matter.  (FWIW I believe
that the seal is acceptably used within fair use everywhere it is currently
used [1].)

[1] http://tools.wikimedia.de/~daniel/WikiSense/CheckUsage.php?i=Seal_of_Livingston_County,_New_York.jpg&w=_100000#end

Thanks for the reply,

[[User:Bdesham]]
-- 
Benjamin D. Esham
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"You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image
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