On Wed, 2003-05-07 at 13:11, Tony Wilson wrote:
Cunc asked:
instead of speaking in generalities, we discuss
specifics?
What are the specific edits and statements that Fred has made that you
have found objectionable? Links would be appreciated.
Huh? Well, maybe you were out of town or something. This has already
been detailed in previous posts to this list, and is obvious from a
glance at the edit histories in any case.
Start with:
http://www.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2003-April/002903.html
Then see the bland admission of guilt without the faintest attempt at
an apology at:
http://www.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2003-April/002905.html
Follow it up with choice little words of Wikilove like these: "Their
activity is no different from those who think they can deny the
holocaust." You'll find that one at:
http://www.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2003-May/003068.html
For that long string of major changes over a period of several days,
all dishonestly marked as minor, and despite repeated requests to Fred
that he desist
see:
http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Communist_state&action=hist…
Hmm. I still don't see it. The mailing list posts just seem to be both
you and Fred engaging in slightly heated rhetoric. Nothing exciting
there.
Just pointing to the history of [[Communist state]] I see a lot of
YELLING by Jtdirl and Jtdirl attacking Fred's edits as "rubbish",
"vandalism", and "rant".
Looking at Fred's second edit, the first that Jtdirl described as "POV
vandalism"
http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Communist_state&oldid=859844
I don't see anything that's absurd. Jtdirl deleted the following text,
which seems pretty defensible at first glance and certainly not
"vandalism".
Typically a communist state is characterized by grinding [[poverty]], a
bloated [[bureaucracy]], diversion of resources into [[military]]
assets, a general loss of [[morale]] by the general population, and
[[political stability|instability]] marked by periodic [[rebellion]]s
which are brutally repressed. A communist state is characterized by the
sharp division of the population into two castes, party members and the
rest of the population. A small group, the [[politbureau]], typically
consisting of less than 10 people, sometimes only 1, within the party
hold any real power or have access to accurate information. A large
[[secret police]] apparatus closely monitors the population.
[[Concentration camp]]s and other facilities are used to incarcerate
those dissidents which are not liquidated.
There have been two major communist states, The [[Soviet Union]] and its
satellites and the [[People's Republic of China]]. Minor states include
[[Yugoslavia]], [[Cuba]], [[Viet Nam]] and [[North Korea]]. The pattern
varies in each with those clinging most closely to communist ideals
being most characteristically totalitarian, impoverished, militaristic,
and static. Attempts to incorporate [[democracy|democratic]] principles
as in the case of the Soviet Union under Gorbachev,
[[socialism|socialist]] principles as in Yugoslavia,or
[[capitalism|capitalistic]] techniques as in China result in some
mitigation of the negative features of the communist state but sometimes
result in dynamic situations which may undermine the control of the
party over the state or even lead to its collapse.