<div align=center><STRONG><FONT color=#00007f size=4>Por favor, preciso da indicação de um site que me ajude a traduzir do armênio para o inglês ou portugês.</FONT></STRONG></div> <div align=center><STRONG><FONT color=#00007f size=4>Poderiam me ajudar?</FONT></STRONG></div> <div align=center><STRONG><FONT color=#00007f size=4>Agradeço.</FONT></STRONG></div> <div align=center><STRONG><FONT color=#00007f size=4>Regina<BR></FONT></STRONG><BR><B><I>translators-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org</I></B> escreveu:</div> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Send Translators-l mailing list submissions to<BR>translators-l@lists.wikimedia.org<BR><BR>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<BR>https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l<BR>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<BR>translators-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org<BR><BR>You can reach the person managing the
list at<BR>translators-l-owner@lists.wikimedia.org<BR><BR>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<BR>than "Re: Contents of Translators-l digest..."<BR><BR><BR>Today's Topics:<BR><BR>1. MediaWiki 1.12 about to be branched: please give localisation<BR>a push (Siebrand Mazeland)<BR>2. Re: MediaWiki 1.12 about to be branched: please give<BR>localisation a push (Michael Wolf)<BR>3. Re: MediaWiki 1.12 about to be branched: please give<BR>localisation a push (Siebrand Mazeland)<BR>4. Re: [Wikitech-l] An update on localisation in MediaWiki<BR>(Anders Wegge Jakobsen)<BR>5. Re: [Wikitech-l] An update on localisation in MediaWiki<BR>(Siebrand Mazeland)<BR>6. Re: [Wikitech-l] An update on localisation in MediaWiki<BR>(Anders Wegge Jakobsen)<BR>7. Re: [Wikitech-l] An update on localisation inMediaWiki<BR>(Siebrand Mazeland)<BR><BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Message: 1<BR>Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 21:21:33
+0100<BR>From: "Siebrand Mazeland" <S.MAZELAND@XS4ALL.NL><BR>Subject: [Translators-l] MediaWiki 1.12 about to be branched: please<BR>give localisation a push<BR>To: "'MediaWiki internationalisation'"<BR><MEDIAWIKI-I18N@LISTS.WIKIMEDIA.ORG>, "'Wikimedia Translators'"<BR><TRANSLATORS-L@LISTS.WIKIMEDIA.ORG><BR>Message-ID: <007b01c871a2$b05dff50$4001a8c0@SMLT3><BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<BR><BR>Dear translators,<BR><BR>According to the last 'CTO weekly report'[1] Brion is about to<BR>branch MediaWiki version 1.12 this week. That means that this<BR>version of MediaWiki is the version of the software that new<BR>users of MediaWiki will be using for a while (outside of<BR>Wikimedia not everyone is always running the 'bleeding edge'<BR>version of MediaWiki).<BR><BR>Even though this version of MediaWiki will have the largest<BR>increase ever in support for languages, this is the time to<BR>finish those loose ends.<BR><BR>Please check if you have any
remaining translations in the<BR>core messages or if you can at least complete the most often<BR>used messages in the languages you are able to contribute to<BR>in Betawiki[2].<BR><BR>End of year 2007 I sent out an overview of MediaWiki<BR>localisation[3]. In that report I set a few ambitious goals<BR>for MediaWiki localisation in 2008. I am happy to report that<BR>we are well on track to reaching those goals[4],[5]. However,<BR>it is very important to realise that localisation is an<BR>ongoing process: messages are being added constantly and<BR>sometimes they also change. These are all things that are made<BR>visible when using Betawiki as the platform for MediaWiki<BR>localisation. Based on user input, we also keep on improving<BR>the tools used.<BR><BR>We still need more translators for languages that have not<BR>been worked on for a while and languages that still have large<BR>gaps in localisation.<BR><BR>Some localisation statistics for languages that have the
10<BR>largest Wikipedias:<BR><BR>|-------------------------------------------|<BR>| language | mostused | core | WMF | ext* |<BR>|-------------------------------------------|<BR>| English | 100% | 100% | 100% | 100% |<BR>| German | 100% | 100% | 99% | 65% |<BR>| French | 100% | 100% | 100% | 100% |<BR>| Polish | 100% | 100% | 80% | 36% |<BR>| Japanse | 100% | 100% | 58% | 32% |<BR>| Italian | 100% | 100% | 64% | 26% |<BR>| Dutch | 100% | 100% | 100% | 100% |<BR>| Portugese | 100% | 100% | 100% | 74% |<BR>| Spanish | 100% | 92% | 24% | 16% |<BR>| Swedish | 100% | 100% | 100% | 56% |<BR>|-------------------------------------------|<BR><BR>* Message groups are: most often used messages (mostused), all messages<BR>in standard MediaWiki (core), all messages used in extensions that<BR>Wikimedia wikis use (WMF), all extension messages (ext)<BR><BR>Have a great wiki experience and thank you for your help!<BR><BR>Cheers!<BR><BR>Siebrand<BR><BR>[1]
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2008-February/036405.html<BR>[2] http://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&task=untranslated&group=core<BR>[3] http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/translators-l/2007-December/000571.html<BR>[4] http://translatewiki.net/wiki/Translating:Group_statistics<BR>[5] http://translatewiki.net/wiki/Translating:Group_statistics_in_time<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Message: 2<BR>Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 21:34:33 +0100<BR>From: Michael Wolf <MILUPO@SORBZILLA.DE><BR>Subject: Re: [Translators-l] MediaWiki 1.12 about to be branched:<BR>please give localisation a push<BR>To: Wikimedia Translators <TRANSLATORS-L@LISTS.WIKIMEDIA.ORG><BR>Message-ID: <47B89A59.8070501@sorbzilla.de><BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed<BR><BR>Siebrand Mazeland napisa:<BR><BR>> Some localisation statistics for languages that have the 10<BR>> largest Wikipedias:<BR>> <BR>>
|-------------------------------------------|<BR>> | language | mostused | core | WMF | ext* |<BR>> |-------------------------------------------|<BR>> | English | 100% | 100% | 100% | 100% |<BR>> | German | 100% | 100% | 99% | 65% |<BR>> | French | 100% | 100% | 100% | 100% |<BR>> | Polish | 100% | 100% | 80% | 36% |<BR>> | Japanse | 100% | 100% | 58% | 32% |<BR>> | Italian | 100% | 100% | 64% | 26% |<BR>> | Dutch | 100% | 100% | 100% | 100% |<BR>> | Portugese | 100% | 100% | 100% | 74% |<BR>> | Spanish | 100% | 92% | 24% | 16% |<BR>> | Swedish | 100% | 100% | 100% | 56% |<BR>> |-------------------------------------------|<BR><BR>100%? They have been translated outside Betwaiki, am I right?<BR>English? Did anybody translate from English into English? It isn't fair <BR>to include it into statistics.<BR>The 10 largest Wikipedias. Alwasy still the largest ones. :-( There are <BR>some small Wikipedias that have been localized very well,
too. ;-)<BR><BR>Kind regards<BR>Michawiki<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Message: 3<BR>Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 00:39:59 +0100<BR>From: "Siebrand Mazeland" <S.MAZELAND@XS4ALL.NL><BR>Subject: Re: [Translators-l] MediaWiki 1.12 about to be branched:<BR>please give localisation a push<BR>To: "'Wikimedia Translators'" <TRANSLATORS-L@LISTS.WIKIMEDIA.ORG><BR>Message-ID: <008601c871be$68992110$4001a8c0@SMLT3><BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<BR><BR>Hi Michael,<BR><BR>English is the source language, so that is always at 100% translated.<BR>Because it still is a localisation, it has its place in the localisation<BR>statistics. This does not mean that it has the highest quality. We regularly<BR>find errors and typos in it and fix them. The English localisation is<BR>usually made by developers and they are not always the best writers of User<BR>Interface messages, as you may have noticed. ;)<BR><BR>About 10% of the localisations are
being maintained outide Betawiki.<BR>English, and German are among those. The other 8 languages I reported on are<BR>being maintained in Betawiki. You can find a list as complete as possible on<BR>http://translatewiki.net/wiki/Translating:Languages<BR><BR>I reported on the 10 languages with the largest Wikipedias as a teaser and<BR>linked to the Group stats for a complete overview. I am kind of hoping the<BR>Spanish translators will finally get the hint ;) I also mentioned my report<BR>on localisation. I am planning on writing that 2-3 more times this year.<BR>That will most definately not focus on Wikipedia and it's largest language<BR>variants.<BR><BR>My previous email does in no way mean that Upper Sorbian (or any other<BR>language with an almost complete localisation) would have a localisation of<BR>lower quality. To the contrary. Maintenance for Upper Sorbian (but also for<BR>Arabic, Occitan, and Slovenian) has been excellent over the past few months<BR>and in the
list of 300+ supported languages, it is among the languages that<BR>have the most complete localisation. Credit where credit's due, but now I am<BR>not mentioning another 70 or so languages for which people are also making<BR>an effort; they have just not finished yet.<BR><BR>However, my mail would have gotten too long if I had mentioned each and<BR>every aspect of what we as the Betawiki community are doing for MediaWiki<BR>localisation. I do hope you understand.<BR><BR>Cheers! Siebrand<BR><BR>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----<BR>Van: translators-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org<BR>[mailto:translators-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] Namens Michael Wolf<BR>Verzonden: zondag 17 februari 2008 21:35<BR>Aan: Wikimedia Translators<BR>Onderwerp: Re: [Translators-l] MediaWiki 1.12 about to be branched: please<BR>give localisation a push<BR><BR>[snip]<BR><BR>100%? They have been translated outside Betwaiki, am I right?<BR>English? Did anybody translate from English into English? It
isn't fair <BR>to include it into statistics.<BR>The 10 largest Wikipedias. Alwasy still the largest ones. :-( There are <BR>some small Wikipedias that have been localized very well, too. ;-)<BR><BR>Kind regards<BR>Michawiki<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Message: 4<BR>Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 11:24:36 +0100<BR>From: Anders Wegge Jakobsen <WEGGE@WEGGE.DK><BR>Subject: Re: [Translators-l] [Wikitech-l] An update on localisation in<BR>MediaWiki<BR>To: "Wikimedia developers" <WIKITECH-L@LISTS.WIKIMEDIA.ORG>,<BR>"Wikimedia Translators" <TRANSLATORS-L@LISTS.WIKIMEDIA.ORG>,<BR>"MediaWiki internationalisation" <MEDIAWIKI-I18N@LISTS.WIKIMEDIA.ORG><BR>Message-ID: <M3ZLTY609K.FSF@OBELIX.WEGGE.DK><BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8<BR><BR>Anders Wegge Jakobsen <WEGGE@WEGGE.DK>writes:<BR><BR>Six weeks ago I became involved in an argument about translation of<BR>the mediawiki software. I made the comment below.<BR><BR>> Yes, the obvious solution is that
I maintain a private translation;<BR>> at the same time one or more of the admins at dawiki plays catchup,<BR>> whenever the inerface suddenly start sprouting english words, and the<BR>> rest of the world get to see the worst of OSS. Everyone is happy.<BR><BR>Unfortunately, it have proven to be true. No substantial changes to<BR>the danish localization have happened since then. Since I have cooled<BR>of a bit since then, and my prediction have proven true, I'll try to<BR>summarize the problems with localization on translatewiki as I see<BR>them:<BR><BR>* With the current setup, translators will need to access the code, to<BR>actually see what cryptical strings like 'You have not specified<BR>target revision or revi sions to perform this function on.' actually<BR>mean.<BR><BR>* That a web interface exists does not equal that a large horde of<BR>skilled translators will be attracted.<BR><BR>* Noone likes to see others credited with their work.<BR><BR>This is not an
attempt to renew a heated argument. The idea of<BR>providing a relative easy-to-use interface for translation work is<BR>better than having no one translating the interface into any<BR>particular language. But in my opinion, it is not at present time a<BR>substitute for having someone wit at least rudimentary PHP coding<BR>skills doing the translation and submitting patches or direct commits<BR>to svn.<BR><BR>And yes, the issue of crediting work was what angered me most. It<BR>still is, and unless I'm the one individual in the world with the<BR>thinnest skin on this matter, this issue will arise again.<BR><BR>-- <BR>// Wegge<BR><HTTP: Forside wiki geowiki.wegge.dk>- Alt om geocaching<BR>Bruger du den gratis spamfighther ser jeg kun dine indl?g *EN* gang.<BR><BR>-- <BR>This message has been scanned for viruses and<BR>dangerous content by MailScanner, and is<BR>believed to be clean.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Message: 5<BR>Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008
11:47:39 +0100<BR>From: "Siebrand Mazeland" <S.MAZELAND@XS4ALL.NL><BR>Subject: Re: [Translators-l] [Wikitech-l] An update on localisation in<BR>MediaWiki<BR>To: "'Wikimedia developers'" <WIKITECH-L@LISTS.WIKIMEDIA.ORG>,<BR>"'Wikimedia Translators'" <TRANSLATORS-L@LISTS.WIKIMEDIA.ORG>,<BR>"'MediaWiki internationalisation'"<BR><MEDIAWIKI-I18N@LISTS.WIKIMEDIA.ORG><BR>Message-ID: <002201c8721b$aec4b6b0$4001a8c0@SMLT3><BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<BR><BR>Hi Wegge,<BR><BR>Contrary to your belief I think you I are still quite angry at something that happended or something that someone did or wrote. I have problem identifying what it is exactly, which makes it hard to address. I find few of the statements you made below to be true.<BR><BR>Can you let us know what you would need to be satisfied, or in your eyes be properly credited for everything you have done for the Danish translation? Your current choice of debate does not strike me as solution driven,
which is something I personally very much prefer.<BR><BR>Kind regards,<BR><BR>Siebrand Mazeland<BR><BR>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----<BR>Van: wikitech-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikitech-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] Namens Anders Wegge Jakobsen<BR>Verzonden: maandag 18 februari 2008 11:25<BR>Aan: Wikimedia developers; Wikimedia Translators; MediaWiki internationalisation<BR>Onderwerp: Re: [Wikitech-l] An update on localisation in MediaWiki<BR><BR>Anders Wegge Jakobsen <WEGGE@WEGGE.DK>writes:<BR><BR>Six weeks ago I became involved in an argument about translation of the mediawiki software. I made the comment below.<BR><BR>> Yes, the obvious solution is that I maintain a private translation; <BR>> at the same time one or more of the admins at dawiki plays catchup, <BR>> whenever the inerface suddenly start sprouting english words, and the <BR>> rest of the world get to see the worst of OSS. Everyone is happy.<BR><BR>Unfortunately, it have proven to
be true. No substantial changes to the danish localization have happened since then. Since I have cooled of a bit since then, and my prediction have proven true, I'll try to summarize the problems with localization on translatewiki as I see<BR>them:<BR><BR>* With the current setup, translators will need to access the code, to<BR>actually see what cryptical strings like 'You have not specified<BR>target revision or revi sions to perform this function on.' actually<BR>mean.<BR><BR>* That a web interface exists does not equal that a large horde of<BR>skilled translators will be attracted.<BR><BR>* Noone likes to see others credited with their work.<BR><BR>This is not an attempt to renew a heated argument. The idea of providing a relative easy-to-use interface for translation work is better than having no one translating the interface into any particular language. But in my opinion, it is not at present time a substitute for having someone wit at least rudimentary PHP coding
skills doing the translation and submitting patches or direct commits to svn.<BR><BR>And yes, the issue of crediting work was what angered me most. It still is, and unless I'm the one individual in the world with the thinnest skin on this matter, this issue will arise again.<BR><BR>--<BR>// Wegge<BR><HTTP: Forside wiki geowiki.wegge.dk>- Alt om geocaching Bruger du den gratis spamfighther ser jeg kun dine indl?g *EN* gang.<BR><BR>--<BR>This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.<BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Wikitech-l mailing list<BR>Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org<BR>https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Message: 6<BR>Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:25:58 +0100<BR>From: Anders Wegge Jakobsen <WEGGE@WEGGE.DK><BR>Subject: Re: [Translators-l] [Wikitech-l] An update on localisation in<BR>MediaWiki<BR>To:
Wikimedia Translators <TRANSLATORS-L@LISTS.WIKIMEDIA.ORG><BR>Cc: 'Wikimedia developers' <WIKITECH-L@LISTS.WIKIMEDIA.ORG>,<BR>'MediaWiki internationalisation' <MEDIAWIKI-I18N@LISTS.WIKIMEDIA.ORG><BR>Message-ID: <M3ODAEJYK9.FSF@OBELIX.WEGGE.DK><BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8<BR><BR>"Siebrand Mazeland" <S.MAZELAND@XS4ALL.NL>writes:<BR><BR>> Contrary to your belief I think you I are still quite angry at<BR>> something that happended or something that someone did or wrote. I<BR>> have problem identifying what it is exactly, which makes it hard to<BR>> address. I find few of the statements you made below to be true.<BR><BR>Yes, I'm still angry about some of the comments. I will be for<BR>eternity. But since that won't change, just forget it. Neither you,<BR>nor Niklas is to be blamed for someone else making flippant remarks.<BR><BR>> Can you let us know what you would need to be satisfied, or in your<BR>> eyes be properly credited for everything you
have done for the<BR>> Danish translation? Your current choice of debate does not strike me<BR>> as solution driven, which is something I personally very much<BR>> prefer.<BR><BR>The reason I may seem un-constructive, is the simple fact that while<BR>I'm able to point out the problems as I see them, I have no idea how<BR>to solve them. If we leave my ego out of the equation for the moment,<BR>the main issue is that at some of the interface messages will be<BR>completely unknown and opaque to the translators. The obvious solution<BR>to that is instrumenting the code, so that any message can be seen in<BR>its context. That is going to take quite a lot of time, and not<BR>something I think will happen right away.<BR><BR>More realistic, would be crafting a set of more or less static pages,<BR>that displays all of the messages in the contexts they are used. That<BR>will ba a game of constant catchup, but at least it will be easier<BR>than to change the entire codebase
to include a demo feature of sorts.<BR><BR><BR>-- <BR>// Wegge<BR><HTTP: Forside wiki geowiki.wegge.dk>- Alt om geocaching<BR>Bruger du den gratis spamfighther ser jeg kun dine indl?g *EN* gang.<BR><BR>-- <BR>This message has been scanned for viruses and<BR>dangerous content by MailScanner, and is<BR>believed to be clean.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Message: 7<BR>Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:57:47 +0100<BR>From: "Siebrand Mazeland" <S.MAZELAND@XS4ALL.NL><BR>Subject: Re: [Translators-l] [Wikitech-l] An update on localisation<BR>inMediaWiki<BR>To: "'Wikimedia Translators'" <TRANSLATORS-L@LISTS.WIKIMEDIA.ORG><BR>Cc: 'Wikimedia developers' <WIKITECH-L@LISTS.WIKIMEDIA.ORG>,<BR>'MediaWiki internationalisation' <MEDIAWIKI-I18N@LISTS.WIKIMEDIA.ORG><BR>Message-ID: <002301c87225$7a690b00$4001a8c0@SMLT3><BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<BR><BR>Hi Wegge,<BR><BR>Thank you for your clarification. No system is perfect. I am of the opinion
though that Translate can give more insight and information which leads to a more effective and efficient translation process than keeping an eye on SVN commits. Our opinions differ, obviously, so no need to elaborate on that. Instead, I chose to inform you. Please read on.<BR><BR>Extension Translate currently offers a way to add translation help in the language 'qqq'. Those hints are displayed in the Betawiki UI and are also exported to the .po files for offline translation. If the translation help is written correctly, translators would have all the context they need. All this is being done 'wiki-style', so improvements must be made and are being made.<BR><BR>An example of a translation hint is http://translatewiki.net/wiki/MediaWiki:Undeletelink/qqq for a message that was added recently.<BR><BR>Currently 588 of 1766 core messages have some form of documentation[1]. For extensions 99 messages have been documented. Making the sets complete is a lot of work. Currently
about 10-15 messages are documented every week[2]. I would love more developer types like you to contribute on localisation by adding message documentation (basically it is a part of i18n). Please see this as an invitation. Anyone with the translator role can add such messages in Betawiki.<BR><BR>An example of a translation hint in Translate context can be seen at http://translatewiki.net/wiki/Image:Translation_hint_example.png. Additional fallback languages while translating are a second instrument we use to make life easier for translators[3].<BR><BR>I hope I have given you and others some additional insight in the workings of Betawiki with the above.<BR><BR>Cheers! Siebrand<BR><BR>[1] http://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special%3ATranslate&task=reviewall&group=core&language=qqq&limit=100<BR>[2] http://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?days=14&limit=250&title=Special%3ARecentchanges&namespace=8&trailer=%2Fqqq<BR>[3]
http://translatewiki.net/wiki/Image:Translation_fallback_example.png<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Translators-l mailing list<BR>Translators-l@lists.wikimedia.org<BR>https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l<BR><BR><BR>End of Translators-l Digest, Vol 32, Issue 5<BR>********************************************<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><p> 
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