<div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Željko Filipin <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:zfilipin@wikimedia.org" target="_blank">zfilipin@wikimedia.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">"...we need more testing in software development. And it needs to be done by the people building the product..."[1]<div>
<br></div><div>Agree? Disagree?</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Of course developers should write integration tests! Of course developers should do manual testing. Those aren't interesting questions. To me, at least, the interesting questions are:<br>
<br></div><div>1. What do you do with developers that think it is beneath them to write integration tests? Unit tests?<br></div><div>2. Where should you store those tests? (We've mostly settled on next to the production code which seems like the right answer to me for lots of reasons.)<br>
</div><div>2. What code/features/changes should have unit tests? Integration tests? What is the difference, any way?<br>3. How do you make sure you stick to #3?<br></div><div>4. Where does documentation live? Do you build documentation from tests? Do you build tests from documentation? (Which one of these do we do or is it even listed?)<br>
</div><div>5. If integration testing is really just another speciality like databases what does this mean for people that have spent years doing one or the other?<br></div><div>6. What do you do when your organization doesn't jib with this reality? (WMF has a QA team when it might make more sense to matrix integration test specialists into teams to teach them how to write integration tests, for example.)<br>
</div><div>7. Holy cow how does this all line up with volunteers who only want to do one thing or the other and we really should take any help we can get.<br></div><div>8. Who pays attention to build failures and what do they do about them?<br>
</div><div>9. What system, exactly, are those build failures testing?<br><br></div><div>Now that I think about it, who is coming to the architecture summit? These kinds of questions would be pretty interesting to talk about and might deserve a (late) RFC.<br>
<br></div><div>Nik<br></div></div></div></div>