<div>The issues brought forth by "anonymous (street meat)" are/were social and gender-based -- the film has been well-received and its reception has preceded anything on Wikipedia. The page was not written in any self-promotional mode -- but in an informational mode. I think I stepped on someone's toes because more than a year go I called attention to "Saturday Night Special" a short which was extremely laudatory of its director, cast and crew. I suggested an edit. No one paid attention to it and when they did, after being on the web for four years or more, it was selective. I believe that the Wikipedia page on that short (which was, incidentally, passing itself off as a full length feature without anyone even questioning it at all, as I certainly didn't know) was written and maintained by someone close to that person. The deletion was 11th hour because I brought up issues is selectivity and double-standard -- and I believe that they were there. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>The orange gentleman seems to think that he was polite when he's been accusing me of self-promotion and lying while ignoring all I had to say over and over and over again in several different exhausting venues. I pointed out that films by women are precious few and far between -- films by Hispanic women even more so -- that in and of itself is noteworthy if anyone should ever look it up on Wikipedia. The rudeness of that man's remarks are mean-spirited and I think he was particularly so because I am a woman, but it's an unnecessary attitude in regards to anyone of any gender. The page for "Saturday Night Special" was removed without nary a comment. My comments and their remarks were kept on, I believe, to humiliate me. I have concluded that this is an exhausting unkind process as evidenced by bullying as a deterrent. It's no wonder more women do not contribute. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>I have an assignment to write.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Thank you and kind regards --</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Mig --<br><br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 4:35 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gendergap-request@lists.wikimedia.org">gendergap-request@lists.wikimedia.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class="gmail_quote">Send Gendergap mailing list submissions to<br> <a href="mailto:gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org">gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org</a><br>
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<br>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>than "Re: Contents of Gendergap digest..."<br><br><br>Today's Topics:<br><br> 1. Women's Voices Women Vote | feminist lobby group wants help<br>
(Audrey Cormier)<br> 2. Women, collective intelligence, and Wikipedia (Pete Forsyth)<br> 3. and to contrast...one stop Commons hosiery shopping!<br> (Sarah Stierch)<br> 4. "anonymous (street meat)" (Migdia Chinea)<br>
5. Re: "anonymous (street meat)" (Nathan)<br> 6. Re: "anonymous (street meat)" (Michael J. Lowrey)<br> 7. Deterrent (Mig)<br> 8. Re: Deterrent (Jeremy Baron)<br> 9. From Jezebel: "Men?s Rights Fight Breaks Out On Wikipedia"<br>
(Sarah Stierch)<br> 10. Re: "anonymous (street meat)" (Dominic)<br><br><br>----------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br>Message: 1<br>Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 17:57:12 -0400<br>
From: Audrey Cormier <<a href="mailto:cormier.home@yahoo.ca">cormier.home@yahoo.ca</a>><br>Subject: [Gendergap] Women's Voices Women Vote | feminist lobby group<br> wants help<br>To: <a href="mailto:gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org">gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org</a><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:EC558D9B-4CC3-4B8B-9B8D-09C93ADEEB72@yahoo.ca">EC558D9B-4CC3-4B8B-9B8D-09C93ADEEB72@yahoo.ca</a>><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br><br>I can add info from the draft to the article (under new title to reflect the organization's new name) this evening, if no one else has done it already. Will copy edit as well if needed.<br>
<br><br><br><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 2<br>Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 08:42:18 -0700<br>From: Pete Forsyth <<a href="mailto:peteforsyth@gmail.com">peteforsyth@gmail.com</a>><br>Subject: [Gendergap] Women, collective intelligence, and Wikipedia<br>
To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects<br> <<a href="mailto:gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org">gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org</a>><br>Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:C3A999FC-5154-4225-9B54-8396642CC390@gmail.com">C3A999FC-5154-4225-9B54-8396642CC390@gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252<br><br>Hi all,<br><br>Eugene Kim, the consultant who facilitated Wikimedia's amazing five-year strategic planning process, has just posted an interesting blog post (with his new consulting agency, Groupaya).<br>
<br><a href="http://groupaya.net/blog/2011/10/do-women-make-groups-smarter/" target="_blank">http://groupaya.net/blog/2011/10/do-women-make-groups-smarter/</a><br><br>An excerpt:<br><br>> Tom Malone is the director of MIT?s Center for Collective Intelligence. A few months ago, he published research with Carnegie Mellon?s Anita Woolley suggesting that groups with more women exhibited greater collective intelligence. It?s not that women have higher IQs than men. (Individual IQ had little correlation with collective intelligence.) It?s that women tend to exhibit more social sensitivity than men, and social sensitivity is a much stronger contributing factor to group intelligence.<br>
<br>Kim goes on to discuss the implications for Wikipedia, a project that is highly collaborative and mostly male. He concludes with the idea that, in the interest of pursuing more effective collaboration, Wikipedia would benefit from more participation by women.<br>
<br>A good read, I recommend it.<br>-Pete<br><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 3<br>Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 12:20:16 -0400<br>From: Sarah Stierch <<a href="mailto:sarah.stierch@gmail.com">sarah.stierch@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: [Gendergap] and to contrast...one stop Commons hosiery<br> shopping!<br>To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects<br> <<a href="mailto:gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org">gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org</a>><br>
Message-ID:<br> <CAKiGLfqA_RUi9_X8US3c=<a href="mailto:krc34k8XOAmDoh1NAD%2B6Y_jHt%2B5KQ@mail.gmail.com">krc34k8XOAmDoh1NAD+6Y_jHt+5KQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>While reviewing new content for my <a href="http://scoop.it/" target="_blank">scoop.it</a> (<br><a href="http://www.scoop.it/t/women-and-wikimedia" target="_blank">http://www.scoop.it/t/women-and-wikimedia</a>), where I posted the recent blog<br>
link that Pete shared..I was suggested this: (safe for work)<br><br><a href="http://hosieryadvocate.blogspot.com/2011/10/hosiery-in-wikimedia-sexy-halloween.html" target="_blank">http://hosieryadvocate.blogspot.com/2011/10/hosiery-in-wikimedia-sexy-halloween.html</a><br>
<br>The blog writer has an entire set of tags devoted to photographs of women in<br>hosiery that are found on Wikipedia/Media/Commons.<br><br>Here is the blog when the writer praises Commons for it's excellent job at<br>
categorizing hosiery.<br><br><a href="http://hosieryadvocate.blogspot.com/2011/05/hosiery-in-wikimedia.html" target="_blank">http://hosieryadvocate.blogspot.com/2011/05/hosiery-in-wikimedia.html</a><br><br>"Wikimedia Commons <<a href="http://commons.wikimedia.org/" target="_blank">http://commons.wikimedia.org/</a>> does a great job of<br>
finding hosiery photos for you, when you search for hosiery, pantyhose,<br>tights and stockings, but there are many photos on the site, that do not<br>turn up with those searches. Those photos show up under different searches,<br>
and will do just fine."<br><br>-- On a personal note, my first high end retail job, at 18, was working in<br>the hosiery department at Nordstroms. I became well aware of the fetish<br>around hosiery due to a selected clientele we had. But this gave me quite a<br>
chuckle and brought back "Early retail" memories.<br><br>I'm impressed that so many men know so much about women's hosiery on<br>Commons, presuming that the majority of categorizers handling that<br>department are males....(I could be wrong, but statistically...)<br>
<br>Sarah<br><br>--<br>GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for Wikimedia <<a href="http://www.glamwiki.org/" target="_blank">http://www.glamwiki.org</a>><br>Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American<br>Art<<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch</a>><br>
and<br>Sarah Stierch Consulting<br>*Historical, cultural & artistic research & advising.*<br>------------------------------------------------------<br><a href="http://www.sarahstierch.com/" target="_blank">http://www.sarahstierch.com/</a><br>
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<br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 4<br>Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 08:43:02 -0700<br>From: Migdia Chinea <<a href="mailto:migdia.chinea@gmail.com">migdia.chinea@gmail.com</a>><br>Subject: [Gendergap] "anonymous (street meat)"<br>
To: <a href="mailto:gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org">gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org</a><br>Message-ID:<br> <<a href="mailto:CANPVe6V09Ja1_8saEde0hO14t2W-OHC_YLpXNCH_2vNAuJ5xNA@mail.gmail.com">CANPVe6V09Ja1_8saEde0hO14t2W-OHC_YLpXNCH_2vNAuJ5xNA@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br><br>tp://<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_(Street_Meat)" target="_blank">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_(Street_Meat)</a><br><br>This deletion was filled with personal remarks and innouendo. It was<br>
discouraging of the posting bny any women. I'm angry and frustrated to have<br>been singled out. Is that treatment to be expected? Thank you --<br><br>Migdia Chinea<br><br>--<br>Migdia & Cicero & Ulla & Tullia-Zoe & Clodia & Aurelius & Cato the Younger<br>
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<br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 5<br>Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 11:53:17 -0400<br>From: Nathan <<a href="mailto:nawrich@gmail.com">nawrich@gmail.com</a>><br>Subject: Re: [Gendergap] "anonymous (street meat)"<br>
To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects<br> <<a href="mailto:gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org">gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org</a>><br>Message-ID:<br> <<a href="mailto:CALKX9dQuOuUxPyfs0V2htVBmiGm0RQsk8vtuaWmoViO5T0mcPg@mail.gmail.com">CALKX9dQuOuUxPyfs0V2htVBmiGm0RQsk8vtuaWmoViO5T0mcPg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8<br><br>I looked at the discussion<br>(<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Anonymous_(Street_Meat)" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Anonymous_(Street_Meat)</a>)<br>
and didn't see personal remarks or innuendo. Can you point me to them?<br><br>On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 11:43 AM, Migdia Chinea <<a href="mailto:migdia.chinea@gmail.com">migdia.chinea@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>> tp://<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_(Street_Meat)" target="_blank">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_(Street_Meat)</a><br>
><br>> This deletion was filled with personal remarks and innouendo.? It was<br>> discouraging of the posting bny any women.? I'm angry and frustrated to have<br>> been singled out.? Is that treatment to be expected?? Thank you --<br>
><br>> Migdia Chinea<br>><br>> --<br>> Migdia & Cicero & Ulla & Tullia-Zoe & Clodia & Aurelius & Cato the Younger<br>><br>><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>
> Gendergap mailing list<br>> <a href="mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org">Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org</a><br>> <a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap" target="_blank">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap</a><br>
><br>><br><br><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 6<br>Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 13:10:33 -0500<br>From: "Michael J. Lowrey" <<a href="mailto:orangemike@gmail.com">orangemike@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Gendergap] "anonymous (street meat)"<br>To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects<br> <<a href="mailto:gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org">gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org</a>><br>
Message-ID:<br> <CAMXq-Rc05dHD12n_Ycu+0QEWpUrkhhUv+P3yA5bvKH=<a href="mailto:ONm6mCg@mail.gmail.com">ONm6mCg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br><br>On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Nathan <<a href="mailto:nawrich@gmail.com">nawrich@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> I looked at the discussion<br>> (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Anonymous_(Street_Meat)" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Anonymous_(Street_Meat)</a>)<br>
> and didn't see personal remarks or innuendo. Can you point me to them?<br>><br>> On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 11:43 AM, Migdia Chinea <<a href="mailto:migdia.chinea@gmail.com">migdia.chinea@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> tp://<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_(Street_Meat)" target="_blank">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_(Street_Meat)</a><br>>><br>>> This deletion was filled with personal remarks and innouendo.? It was<br>
>> discouraging of the posting bny any women.? I'm angry and frustrated to have<br>>> been singled out.? Is that treatment to be expected?? Thank you --<br>>><br>>> Migdia Chinea<br>>><br>
>> --<br>>> Migdia & Cicero & Ulla & Tullia-Zoe & Clodia & Aurelius & Cato the Younger<br><br>Migdia Chinea's only purpose on Wikipedia has been to promote herself<br>(whom she deems to be notable as an up-and-coming filmmaker) and her<br>
film (ditto). She considers any challenge to her self-promotion to<br>constitute an assault on herself as a human being and creative worker,<br>and refuses to heed any of the advice given her. This is not a gender<br>issue in any way; I ran into similar problems with the male comix<br>
artist Colin Upton, who left Wikipedia after not liking the way other<br>people treated the article about him.<br><br>--<br>Michael J. "Orange Mike" Lowrey<br><br>"When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left, I buy food<br>
and clothes."<br>? ?? --? Desiderius Erasmus<br><br><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 7<br>Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 11:58:43 -0700<br>From: Mig <<a href="mailto:migdia.chinea@gmail.com">migdia.chinea@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: [Gendergap] Deterrent<br>To: "<a href="mailto:gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org">gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org">gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org</a>><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:271BAAD4-B2F7-4359-8FAF-28BFC413E568@gmail.com">271BAAD4-B2F7-4359-8FAF-28BFC413E568@gmail.com</a>><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br><br>I believe that men editors have targeted me for and with their biases and have done everything they could to humiliate me publicly , which acts as a deterrent to female editors who are not well connected with wikipedia ranks. Please refer to my page. Thank u. Migdia Chinea<br>
<br>Sent from Migdia's iPhone<br><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 8<br>Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 15:05:04 -0400<br>From: Jeremy Baron <<a href="mailto:jeremy@tuxmachine.com">jeremy@tuxmachine.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Deterrent<br>To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects<br> <<a href="mailto:gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org">gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org</a>><br>Message-ID:<br> <<a href="mailto:CAE-2OCaUvmB4SwXv%2BEoFa9Qp5vOxJsZ_Y8RgEjkFGQ2DuoALRQ@mail.gmail.com">CAE-2OCaUvmB4SwXv+EoFa9Qp5vOxJsZ_Y8RgEjkFGQ2DuoALRQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8<br><br>On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 14:58, Mig <<a href="mailto:migdia.chinea@gmail.com">migdia.chinea@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>> I believe that men editors have targeted me for and with their biases and have done everything they could to humiliate me publicly , which acts as a deterrent to female editors who are not well connected with wikipedia ranks. ? Please refer to my page. Thank u. Migdia Chinea<br>
><br>> Sent from Migdia's iPhone<br><br>I assume you're referring to<br><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Migdiachinea" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Migdiachinea</a> , is that right?<br>
<br>Just so people don't have to go searching to find what you're talking about.<br><br>-Jeremy<br><br><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 9<br>Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 15:10:11 -0400<br>From: Sarah Stierch <<a href="mailto:sarah.stierch@gmail.com">sarah.stierch@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: [Gendergap] From Jezebel: "Men?s Rights Fight Breaks Out On<br> Wikipedia"<br>To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects<br> <<a href="mailto:gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org">gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org</a>><br>
Message-ID:<br> <<a href="mailto:CAKiGLfrsdvSdkS%2BDiBF_W%2BxNT-qFVZi6Q8CTwFgF1LBqWrxoTQ@mail.gmail.com">CAKiGLfrsdvSdkS+DiBF_W+xNT-qFVZi6Q8CTwFgF1LBqWrxoTQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br><a href="http://jezebel.com/e_harm/" target="_blank">http://jezebel.com/e_harm/</a><br><br>--<br>GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for Wikimedia <<a href="http://www.glamwiki.org/" target="_blank">http://www.glamwiki.org</a>><br>
Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American<br>Art<<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch</a>><br>and<br>Sarah Stierch Consulting<br>
*Historical, cultural & artistic research & advising.*<br>------------------------------------------------------<br><a href="http://www.sarahstierch.com/" target="_blank">http://www.sarahstierch.com/</a><br>-------------- next part --------------<br>
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<br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 10<br>Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 19:35:31 -0400<br>From: Dominic <<a href="mailto:dmcdevit@cox.net">dmcdevit@cox.net</a>><br>Subject: Re: [Gendergap] "anonymous (street meat)"<br>
To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects<br> <<a href="mailto:gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org">gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org</a>><br>Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:4E9E0D43.5010304@cox.net">4E9E0D43.5010304@cox.net</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed<br><br>Michael, I think that response is overly harsh, even if it is true that<br>Migdia's contributions were not appropriate for the encyclopedia. While<br>
there are certainly spammers who act in bad faith, often what<br>Wikipedians see as self-promotion is not seen or intended that way by<br>those who contribute it. In particular, when we are talking about<br>biographical material and issues of notability, it is very easy for the<br>
issue to become personalized, and for the subject to feel like they are<br>being persecuted on a personal level (being accused of "vanity," called<br>not "notable"). I am not certain why Migdia says that the comments were<br>
gender-related, but the feeling of having been singled out and insulted<br>is a common one for those who have had to go through the deletion<br>process, and we hear it a lot.<br><br>It is important to remember that Wikipedia's definition of terms like<br>
"notability" is jargon and confusing. To a normal person, being notable<br>means you've done something important; to a Wikipedian, it means<br>reporters or academics have written about you. In fact, it is quite<br>
possible to debate the merits of an article without accusing anyone of<br>self-promotion, even if you believe it's true. The self-promotion issue<br>is beside the point: in general, we delete articles if they fail our<br>
criteria for inclusion and we keep them if they meet them (self-authored<br>or not).<br><br>Dominic<br><br>On 10/18/11 2:10 PM, Michael J. Lowrey wrote:<br>> On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Nathan<<a href="mailto:nawrich@gmail.com">nawrich@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> I looked at the discussion<br>>> (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Anonymous_(Street_Meat)" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Anonymous_(Street_Meat)</a>)<br>
>> and didn't see personal remarks or innuendo. Can you point me to them?<br>>><br>>> On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 11:43 AM, Migdia Chinea<<a href="mailto:migdia.chinea@gmail.com">migdia.chinea@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>> tp://<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_(Street_Meat)" target="_blank">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_(Street_Meat)</a><br>>>><br>>>> This deletion was filled with personal remarks and innouendo. It was<br>
>>> discouraging of the posting bny any women. I'm angry and frustrated to have<br>>>> been singled out. Is that treatment to be expected? Thank you --<br>>>><br>>>> Migdia Chinea<br>
>>><br>>>> --<br>>>> Migdia& Cicero& Ulla& Tullia-Zoe& Clodia& Aurelius& Cato the Younger<br>> Migdia Chinea's only purpose on Wikipedia has been to promote herself<br>
> (whom she deems to be notable as an up-and-coming filmmaker) and her<br>> film (ditto). She considers any challenge to her self-promotion to<br>> constitute an assault on herself as a human being and creative worker,<br>
> and refuses to heed any of the advice given her. This is not a gender<br>> issue in any way; I ran into similar problems with the male comix<br>> artist Colin Upton, who left Wikipedia after not liking the way other<br>
> people treated the article about him.<br>><br><br><br><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Gendergap mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org">Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap" target="_blank">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap</a><br><br><br>End of Gendergap Digest, Vol 9, Issue 60<br>****************************************<br>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>
<div>Migdia & Cicero & Ulla & Tullia-Zoe & Clodia & Aurelius & Cato the Younger</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div><br>