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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=DE link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Béria,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>every single post from you to this list or the foundation list was rude, impolite, disrespectful and sometimes openly aggressive. You never explained what the alleged “lies” are, you called other people ass kissers and so on. Could you please behave in a manner that makes it possible to read this list without distaste?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Ralph – who usually doesn’t contribute to this list<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Von:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> gendergap-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:gendergap-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] <b>Im Auftrag von </b>Béria Lima<br><b>Gesendet:</b> Samstag, 1. Oktober 2011 18:39<br><b>An:</b> Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects<br><b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Gendergap] Gendergap Digest, Vol 8, Issue 76<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Ok. I said to myself that I would not answer that personal attack, but seens that you people want to. So lets go answer your "questions" Ms. Maggie (sorry if is offensive not threat you for your last name, but you never said it, so). I do should advice that my politeness will not be present in this mail, so if someone get offended, I'm sorry.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><i>I'm not clear what point you are trying to prove, other than the 9% of "girls'" voices don't matter. I also find it questionable that you refer to women as girls and don't hesitate ponder why you don't call men boys.</i><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>First, you need to read my mail again. I never said female voices does not matter. Read again and them come back to talk. And I do reffer man as boys as well, If you knew me a bit more you would know that.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><i>Many women, like myself, get driven off of WP due to frustration with the hierarchy, which does exist. Women are treated with less respect, women are questioned for their motives, women are called prudish if they object to sexualizing images--or they are told their voices are not important because they only comprise 9% of the population</i>.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>I'm a woman (or girl) and a Wikipedian for 5 years. I know exactly how we are treated there. And the funny part of it, is that you are complaining that they question your motives, but you have no problems questioning mine. Funny how is easy to do when is not with you right?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><i>Why do you think they only comprise 9% then?</i><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>Your hero Sue wrote a post about that in November. Read it.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><i>My goal on WP is to make it more diverse, and TBH I'm not too into this picture discussion that has gone on for months. But it doesn't mean that it doesn't matter or it isn't an important one, and it doesn't mean that the women who care about it aren't important.<br clear=all></i><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>So if you are about make it more diverse you should not be trying to push people away. Remember that girls are only 9% of us, and even the ones who don't agree with you are important.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><i>Offense is not the reason here, IMO. Offense barely scratches the surface. I can imagine that many of the people on this list are angry--they are angry that women are being objectified and because women are in the minority on the community and it's an uninviting, sometimes terribly creepy atmosphere, their voices do not matter. As for badly written? My god that is the worst you can say? In writing terms that is just snide and a low blow. Basically, only someone who can think of no other insult would say this. "Well it's badly written and has spelling mistakes!" </i><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>I'm sorry but that is your hero's Sue arguments, not mine. And I DON'T subscribe them.<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><i>Come on, get a fucking life.</i><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>Works both ways. And get a manners teacher who will teach you to not offend other people.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><i>Wikipedia is set up so that only people who look for these articles/pictures will know about voting procedures. So of course if there is a vote, the majority would probably be overall positive unless serious canvassing went on to let people who care about the other side know about it so it evens out. Canvassing is set up to prevent this--I believe it's actually a way of biasing the community to serve only the community, and not the readers. Because the readers are--the world. Telling people about the topic is just like how any election goes. I guess unless you are in some sort of fake election where people are led to believe that their votes actually count.</i><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>Canvassing works good when are you people doing to remove images from Wikipedia (I can pull of at least 4 treads in that ML for that from the top of my mind). If you think canvassing solves things, I'm not the one with priorities changed.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><i>Nowhere did you prove that she lied in that article. You only stated how you disagree with her opinion.</i><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>If you read the mail - I think you didn't - you would say that says in the begin that is a answer to ERIK, not to her. There is no point talk with someone who don't answer you back, and Ms. Garden send me a mail saying that she will not answer any of my mails.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><i>Obviously you are not part of this group for the interest of women, </i><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>Why? Because I don't kiss Sue's ass? To "be part of the group" I need to soulless ass-kisser? <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><i>otherwise you would care about that 9%'s opinion</i><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><br>Again, go read my mail (or learn English, whatever works for you)<br> <o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><i>---so why are you subscribing???</i><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>Because I want to. Is a open list, and I want to be here, If you have a problem with my presence, unsubscribe. <br><br>_____<br><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>Béria Lima</span></i><br><a href="http://wikimedia.pt" target="_blank">Wikimedia Portugal</a><br>(351) 963 953 042<br><br><i><span style='color:#999999'>Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.</span></i><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 1 October 2011 16:34, Sarah Stierch <<a href="mailto:sarah.stierch@gmail.com">sarah.stierch@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Maggie <<a href="mailto:rockerrepro@gmail.com" target="_blank">rockerrepro@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>@Beria<br>I'm not clear what point you are trying to prove, other than the 9% of "girls'" voices don't matter. I also find it questionable that you refer to women as girls and don't hesitate ponder why you don't call men boys.<br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br>I notice a few people do that. I often find myself re-reading statements to figure out if writers are indeed talking about girls (under the age 18) or grown women. <br><br> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Offense is not the reason here, IMO. Offense barely scratches the surface. I can imagine that many of the people on this list are angry--they are angry that women are being objectified and because women are in the minority on the community and it's an uninviting, sometimes terribly creepy atmosphere, their voices do not matter. <o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br>+1 I'm pissed, to be frank. I also notice there are is still a nice and small amount of women who are really rude also also, especially to other women. Like this is some territorial thing. (I'm also getting that complaint from the survey!)<br><br> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Come on, get a fucking life.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br>Maggie - how come you and I haven't met yet? <3<br><br> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Nowhere did you prove that she lied in that article. You only stated how you disagree with her opinion. Obviously you are not part of this group for the interest of women, otherwise you would care about that 9%'s opinion---so why are you subscribing???<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>This is a problem we occasionally have in the gender gap room. Why hang out and tell us that you think feminism sucks and that this is one big scheme for special treatment and "affirmative action" and then hang out and wonder why we freak the hell out on you in the IRC room. /facepalm<br><br>-Sarah<br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#888888'><br clear=all><br>-- <br><a href="http://www.glamwiki.org" target="_blank">GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for Wikimedia</a><br><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch" target="_blank">Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American Art</a> <br>and<br>Sarah Stierch Consulting<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='color:#888888'>Historical, cultural & artistic research & advising.</span></i><span style='color:#888888'><br>------------------------------------------------------<br><a href="http://www.sarahstierch.com/" target="_blank">http://www.sarahstierch.com/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='color:#888888'><br></span><br>_______________________________________________<br>Gendergap mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org">Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org</a><br><a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap" target="_blank">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>