<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 4:34 AM, Arnaud HERVE <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:arnaudherve@x-mail.net">arnaudherve@x-mail.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
On 07/09/2011 04:02, Nathan wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
> Since we know that the gender gap exists in many cultures, and not<br>
> just the U.S. or Europe, being aware of and sensitive to specific<br>
> cultural biases takes on special merit here. Far more "gratuitous"<br>
> nudity is not terribly uncommon throughout Western Europe, for<br>
> example, in everything from general interest magazines and newspapers<br>
> to street ads, movies, other media and even in personal interaction<br>
> (see [[Love parade]]).<br>
<br>
Yes nudity in Western Europe has become so frequent that it is devoid of<br>
any significance now. Showing sexual intercourse can provoke a debate<br>
about proper and improper, but Western Europeans will hardly notice an<br>
ad with a naked woman.<br>
<br>
However, there is a new element. That is the pressure from Islamic<br>
immigration.<br>
<br>
Some radical Muslims want the sharia immediately applied to all<br>
populations, even non Muslims, because sharia is the law from God, and<br>
God is far superior to any parliament or constitution. Some Muslims are<br>
more tolerant for other populations, but for their own family it is<br>
still the law, the law as in not a personal choice. Some other Muslims<br>
would like to get rid of Islam, but they are not helped by the<br>
prevailing multicultural policies, which tend to accept community<br>
leaders as the true representatives of what they wish.<br>
<br>
In the past, xenophobia was restricted to extreme-right political<br>
groups. However recently there has been a change, and the liberal<br>
lobbies have turned against Islam, which creates a new situation as it<br>
is the immigrant population which is now perceived as culturally<br>
backwards and threatening for civic rights. The majority of native<br>
European populations now perceive immigration as civilization<br>
threatening, and in this context Islam is perceived as particularly<br>
incompatible with Western civilization. Gender issues have become a<br>
major landmark for that in public debate. Gay groups, feminist groups,<br>
secular groups, now perceive the right to show female nudity, the right<br>
to celibate autonomous life, the right to gender orientation as gains of<br>
modern civilization, to defend actively and specifically against Islam.<br>
In the past it was against the local conservative right, now it is<br>
explicitly against Islam.<br>
<br>
As far as medical treatment of women is concerned, the sharia explicitly<br>
states that :<br>
<br>
- A woman patient cannot be seen naked, or even touched, by a male<br>
doctor. When the doctor is female that is not an issue, and fortunately<br>
many doctors are female. However, for specialized or emergency<br>
treatment, we now have a record of of life threatening situations or<br>
severe lasting damages, because the husband, the father or even the<br>
brother did not allow treatment.<br>
<br>
This also includes severe damages to the baby in obstetrics, when a<br>
complication occurred and the intervention of a male specialist was<br>
refused by the "man in charge".<br>
All this to explain to you that in Western Europe as it is now, the<br>
refusal to show nudity is becoming clearly identified with Islam, and<br>
feminists are turning clearly against Islam.<br></blockquote><div>snip <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
If you have time you can have a look at the photos in pregnancy pages in<br>
Farsi and Arabic. You have the languages column in the left of the<br>
English page. The decency of those pages, which in North American<br>
feminism would be typically considered as protecting women, is now in<br>
Western Europe becoming associated with a threat to civic rights of<br>
women. The pages with the naked woman are the pages of countries with<br>
strong women rights.<br>
<br>
Urdu and Punjabi pages are not developed, but then they are seldom<br>
developed for anything, so it is not very relevant. Some European<br>
languages have very little population and contributors, so they are not<br>
very relevant either. The Dutch page is surprising, as it shows more<br>
nudity, and in Holland they both enjoy high standards of women's rights,<br>
and Islam has become widely considered as an equivalent for political<br>
murder and threats to civic rights.<br>
<br>
<br>
Arnaud<br></blockquote><div><br>Hi Arnaud, <br></div><div><br>Thank you for this enlightening email. <br><br>In the past I work as an obstetrical and gynecological nurse, and know some of the difficulties in treating Muslim women in the United States where they would be a minority population. In the United States, our health care system is totally inadequate to meets the needs of people who wanted high quality medical care and have religious/cultural beliefs that prevent people from the opposite gender from seeing them nude. <br>
<br>The way that it can effect women who want to be educated is important, too, and very relevant to our work on Wikimedia projects. <br><br>I find your information about feminist reaction in Western Europe to be interesting and informative. As I mentioned in another thread today, there can be vastly differing opinions among feminists about issues related to sexually topics. <br>
<br>Sydney<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
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