<font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">You can be bold and write an essay Sarah. But to that became a policy the community will need to agree. And in fact there are in en.wiki guidelines about what not to write in a request for deletion, so you could create somenthing like "what not to write in a Featured Picture request".<br clear="all">
</font>_____<br><font style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif" size="2"><i>Béria Lima</i></font><br><a href="http://wikimedia.pt/" target="_blank">Wikimedia Portugal</a><br>(351) 963 953 042<br><br><i style="COLOR: rgb(153,153,153)">Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.</i><br>
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<div class="gmail_quote">2011/5/18 Sarah <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:slimvirgin@gmail.com">slimvirgin@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
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<div class="h5">On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 10:37, Fred Bauder <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:fredbaud@fairpoint.net" target="_blank">fredbaud@fairpoint.net</a>></span> wrote:<br></div></div>
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<div>> We had a situation recently where we were discussing a BLP, and part of<br>> the<br>> content was that the woman had experienced a serious sexual assault. In<br>> the<br>> course of discussing how to approach it, a couple of remarks were made<br>
> that<br>> tended to downplay what had happened to her, and one person -- in a<br>> different section on the talk page -- commented on how attractive she<br>> was,<br>> and how he wanted to have her babies.<br>
><br>> I was so disgusted by this that I felt (and to some extent still feel)<br>> that<br>> I didn't want to be involved in the project anymore, because why am I<br>> wasting my time in that kind of atmosphere? I felt that it said something<br>
> about me, rather than about them.<br>><br>> I also had to decide whether to say something, or let it lie, and if I<br>> did<br>> say something, I had to make sure I was polite and circumspect, rather<br>> than<br>
> screaming it from the rooftops, which is what I wanted to do. And it<br>> suddenly felt like nothing had changed in the last 40 years, that these<br>> remarks still appear, and that women are still made to feel bad if they<br>
> challenge them. And if we do challenge them, must be extra polite about<br>> it.<br>> Not make a fuss.<br>><br>> So that felt kind of depressing.<br>><br>> Sarah<br><br></div></div>Now we're getting down to a serious discussion. The actual horns of the<br>
dilemma a Wikipedia administrator is in. In a way being limited to text<br>fails to communicate the immediate expression of disgust that would<br>happen in a face-to-face situation, so there is a failure to communicate<br>
feedback effectively. A polite note fails.<br>
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<div>I did say something in the end, and an uninvolved admin left a note on talk asking that the remarks cease. And though he meant well, and I was and remain grateful to him for stepping in, he asked that they cease as a matter of courtesy to me. But I didn't want them to stop as a matter of courtesy. I wanted people to recognize that they were politically unacceptable.<br>
<br>Then I had to explain why the remarks were offensive, when what I really wanted was for them to end, and the meta-discussion to end. Eventually it did die down and a couple of other editors stepped in, and one of the earlier ones apologized, so it was okay.<br>
<br>But I would love to find a way to nip this kind of thing in the bud. I've thought of trying to write an essay or a guideline -- but then people will cry censorship, and will want to know what kind of comments are suddenly not permitted, and who is to judge whether they're offensive, and will argue that not all women agree on definitions of sexism anyway. So it felt like too much of an uphill struggle even to begin it.<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>Sarah </font></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>Gendergap mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org">Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org</a><br><a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap" target="_blank">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap</a><br>
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