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I second. The problem is aggression and trying to impose one's
agenda, and whether you are male, female, M2F transgender or F2M
transgender, you can be aggressive and disruptive. (And I've been on
a couple all women lists over the years where M2F transgenders were
very aggressive, condescending and disruptive.) I don't see any
agreement with Ms. Hale's proposal and I think we need to drop it.<br>
<br>
On 3/16/2011 7:01 PM, Béria Lima wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:AANLkTi=yLSRsJ3FDuX_xzEtRfJqQ=gJawT4U2vbLe7VK@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite"><font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I completely
agree with Fluffy.<br clear="all">
</font>_____<br>
<font style="font-family: georgia,serif;" size="2"><i>Béria Lima</i></font><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://wikimedia.pt"
target="_blank">Wikimedia Portugal</a><br>
(351) 963 953 042<br>
<br>
<i style="color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">Imagine um mundo onde é dada
a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao
somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a
fazer.</i><br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2011/3/16 ChaoticFluffy <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:chaoticfluffy@gmail.com">chaoticfluffy@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding-left: 1ex;">
I also don't have a problem with Erik's POV in particular. My
views on this topic are basically that:<br>
<br>
1) Yes, some of the men here are being excessively strident
and dismissive in a lot of cases<br>
2) Yes, I feel less inclined to speak my mind because I know
that I'm going to have to defend every point I make from three
or four men telling me how it's not a problem<br>
3) No, I don't think the solution is to fork the list. We have
to function with men onwiki, there's no reason to kick them
off here<br>
4) I'm not sure how moderation could be used effectively other
than to have moderators speak to people who are overly
dismissive. Having a moderator approve all posts seems
excessive, but I would support, say, an X-strikes-you're-out
policy regarding belittling or dismissive behavior<br>
5) I don't think it's constructive to require the men to
justify themselves to us or the list. If they're here, they're
here because they want to work on the gender gap. That said...<br>
6) I don't know how many more ways we women can tell you guys
that some of you are coming across as obnoxious. I'm sorry if
that offends you (mostly because I'm a woman and I've been
trained to be sorry if I offend people, hey look how that
works), but YOU ARE. Please accept that this is happening,
it's making the women unhappy, and we'd like you to think
before you speak from now on. <br>
7) Please do NOT immediately protest that you feel like the
mean feminist women are trying to oppress you by telling you
all this. Feel like we're snap-judging your statements? Feel
like we're treating you as your gender rather than yourself,
and unfairly so? Feel like we're just not listening to the
points you're trying to make? WELCOME TO OUR WORLD AS WOMEN.<br>
<br>
-Fluff</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</blockquote>
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