This is true, but doesn't help with many projects. Some projects don't have WP;V as a core principle - what do we do with them? "inappropriate" images on Commons would not be bound by such standards.<br><br>
Frequently viewed articles do not tell readers what we're about, they tell us what readers are about. Do you think people go to the Creampie articles for an image of line drawings? :P. I'm not saying that soft or hard porn on Wikipedia is appropriate, simply that you can't judge <i>us</i> by what our <i>readers</i> look at.<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 12:12 AM, Andreas Kolbe <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jayen466@yahoo.com">jayen466@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="font: inherit;" valign="top"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal;"></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;">
<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">--- On <b>Wed, 16/2/11, ChaoticFluffy <i><<a href="mailto:chaoticfluffy@gmail.com" target="_blank">chaoticfluffy@gmail.com</a>></i></b> wrote:</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">From: ChaoticFluffy <<a href="mailto:chaoticfluffy@gmail.com" target="_blank">chaoticfluffy@gmail.com</a>></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">> Joseph and
Andreas, I think you're assuming facts not in evidence here, so to</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">> speak. If you
disapprove of porn or the pornmaking process, that's got nothing</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">> to do with
wikipedia.</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: black;">Whether a woman in Budapest</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;"><font face="'Times New Roman', serif"> </font></span><span style="font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;">derives sexual
pleasure from receiving five facials </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px;"><span style="font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;">a week from ten men for </span><span style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">$200 a go, as some
Wikipedians appear to believe, is not </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px;"><span style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">actually the issue here. The </span><span style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">issue is this:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">Wikipedia’s mission
is to reflect coverage in reliable sources. We have basic policy</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">commitments to that
effect – WP:V, WP:NOR, WP:NPOV. When it comes to sexual</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">or otherwise
controversial images, we should be featuring the same types of</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">illustrations that
reliable sources writing about these matters use. We should be</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">neither more liberal
nor less liberal than topical sources are, on balance.</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">What happens in
Wikipedia is that editors argue that we are bound to reliable sources</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">in text, but not in
illustrations. As far as illustrations are concerned, NOTCENSORED</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">applies. NOTCENSORED
is touted as the community’s right to substitute its own</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">editorial judgment in
matters of illustration for the editorial judgments made by reliable</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">sources. Our
demographics are skewed. The typical Wikipedian is an 18-year-old,</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">single childless
male. As far as we can tell, women make up about 1/8 of our editorship.</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">Compounding matters,
women comment very rarely at discussions concerned with</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">curating sexology
articles. (Three cheers for Carol!)</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">There is no support
in basic policy for the position that Wikipedia should knowingly,</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">wilfully and
systematically depart from the standards espoused by reliable sources</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">when it comes to
sexually explicit images. Yet this is what happens. We don’t do</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">this in our articles
on dinosaurs, say. Our illustrations of dinosaurs look just like</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">the illustrations of
dinosaurs in reliable sources.</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">This is just a gap
that has opened up in our policy fabric. As a result, we are at times</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">more explicit,
gratuitous or inept in our use of sexual or pornographic images in</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">Wikipedia than
reliable sources would choose to be, as in the examples discussed</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">(and, in part, since
addressed on-wiki).</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">Remember that these
articles are some of our most frequently accessed. Both the</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">Creampie article and
the Bukkake article e.g. are ranked among our top articles by page</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">views (ranks 1,300
and 2,000 or thereabouts). They are viewed significantly more often</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">than Hilary Clinton’s
biography, say.</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">Frequently viewed
articles like that are calling cards. They tell readers and potential</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">new contributors what
we are about.</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">What we should be
about is what reliable sources are about. This is not about protecting</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">women; it is about
protecting Wikipedia from becoming something else than an</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">educational resource.
Women do however have a key role in that, and the gender</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">gap is intimately
related to this issue. What sets reliable sources apart from porn sites</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">is that reliable
sources are written for a mixed readership, just like Wikipedia should be.</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">Reliable sources –
newspapers and scholarly writing – take women’s views into</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">account. Our
editorial process does a poor job of doing that, and the general gender gap</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">as well as the even
more extreme gender gap in curating these articles compounds the</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">issue.</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">One thing we could do
to address this, beyond increased female participation, is to</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">enshrine in policy
the principle that editorial standards for article illustration should not</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">depart significantly
and systematically from editorial standards in reliable sources.</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">That would help
address the problem.</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black;">Andreas</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt; line-height: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; color: black;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; line-height: 115%;"> </span></p></td></tr></tbody></table><br>
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