<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;">A Dutch insurance for alternative version of the Genesis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3yUr0ah370 <br><br>--- On <b>Sun, 2/13/11, Miguelinito <i><miguelinito@gmail.com></i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: Miguelinito <miguelinito@gmail.com><br>Subject: Re: [Gendergap] The Book of Genesis<br>To: "Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects" <gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org><br>Date: Sunday, February 13, 2011, 7:42 AM<br><br><div id="yiv861695942"><title>Re: [Gendergap] The Book of Genesis</title>
<span style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS';font-size:12pt;">(A correction in my former post: unless = although, that's<br>
the problem of trying to think in English when you speak Spanish :)).<br>
<br>
With all respect, I'm atheist, and my best friends are gay,<br>
I suppose there's no problem with that. I didn't say that *all* the<br>
people in Wikipedia are "gay atheist Jews", what I said is<br>
that a lot of women who don't edit Wikipedia (and also don't<br>
participate in men's roles) are bound to a classic cliché,<br>
which is in turn highly related to the catholic beliefs<br>
brought by the first European colonists. Anyway, I admit that the<br>
problem is probably not only due to the catholic religion, since<br>
the first indigenous women in North America were, as far as<br>
I know, in the same situation.<br>
<br>
So, maybe, it's just human nature: men liked power and were<br>
more aggressive and physically stronger than women, so in the<br>
beginning they just used to take women by their hair and drag<br>
them into the cave (it's just a way to express the idea, I don't<br>
even know if these stereotypical image is true), and nowadays<br>
we have a refined version of the same thing: men created a<br>
system which, at first glance, gives the same opportunities<br>
for men and women, but, when scrutinized, reveals subtle<br>
obstacles which, all together, compound a big obstacle for<br>
women to succeed. The best solution, in that case, would<br>
be to completely destroy the system and construct a new one<br>
taking into account men's and women's needs, although that<br>
seems to be -by now- an utopia. Women who get by themselves<br>
an active role in today's society are just reinforcing a system with<br>
the shape of men's mentality's. In other words, they're fighting<br>
against men with men's weapons. Is that really what we want?<br>
In my opinion, women should create their own roles, some of<br>
them would probably be the same as men's, but some not.<br>
Women can break men's rules, can't they? So, after all,<br>
maybe it's not so crazy as I first thought the idea of improving<br>
articles about friendship bracelets and "Sex and the City". And maybe<br>
things would be better if, instead of trying to make things easier<br>
for renowned users (with reputation systems and the like), we<br>
tried to focus on the real problem: ego. Ego (low self-esteem)<br>
is the main problem in today's society, and, in my opinion,<br>
the origin of evil in the world.<br>
<br>
And that leads me to this proposal: what do you think about<br>
creating a forum in Wikipedia? I'll post this in my next thread.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
Miguel Ángel<br>
<br>
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<td width="1336"><span style="font-family:'trebuchet ms';font-size:12pt;">So you think the problem with the participation of women is that a lot of our readers are bible-thumpers, and by getting lots of women (specifically <i>Catholic</i> women) involved, we'll destroy the misogynistic parts of faith? Ignoring that as it happens, raw belief is in our nature, and that the vast majority of Americans, bible-thumper or no are <i>not</i> Catholic, you seem to be misunderstanding our community somewhat. You know Conservapedia exists because apparently we're all gay atheist Jews, right? :p Trust me, Misogyny from leftover religious teachings is not going to be a big problem for a large chunk of us. Most of us are atheists, agnostics, or the harmless kind of religious person.<br>
<br>
On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 9:58 AM, Miguelinito <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:miguelinito@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=miguelinito@gmail.com">miguelinito@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
What I wanted point out is that one of the causes of the gender gap,<br>
specifically in the United States, is that there is a lot of people<br>
who read the Bible. The Bible is, obviously, sexist, and in fact makes<br>
women in general be submissive. While ideas are separated, they<br>
survive unless they are wrong (that's why Conservapedia was born).<br>
What I propose is to promote catholic women participation, so they<br>
can share their ideas too. Once all ideas are together (catholic and<br>
scientific), the thruth goes without saying, as believing is not in<br>
our human nature, but reasoning. That's my opinion.<br>
<br>
P.S: I don't drop my jaw about the gender gap in the US when I see<br>
that women automatically get their surname *replaced* by the married<br>
name.<br>
<br>
Sorry for not being expressive enough.<br>
<br>
Miguel Ángel<br>
<br>
> Um, this thread seems rather off-topic of our specific purpose here...<br>
<br>
> Thanks,<br>
> Pharos<br>
<br>
> On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 10:09 AM, Marc Riddell<br>
> <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:michaeldavid86@comcast.net" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=michaeldavid86@comcast.net">michaeldavid86@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>> I don't, as a rule, top post. But in this case, since it is a response to<br>
>> both of these messages, it seemed appropriate,<br>
>><br>
>> There was a time, many, many, many years ago; before there was any defined<br>
>> structured social or political group; there was a female, a male, and their<br>
>> offspring. And the female was, in fact, the center of this grouping. She<br>
>> gave life, kept the "home" and nurtured the offspring on a daily basis.<br>
>> While the male, on the other hand was gone most of the time hunting and<br>
>> gathering. As these individual "family groups" began gathering into tribes,<br>
>> then groups of tribes into villages etc., etc. to today, these groups soon<br>
>> required some sort of "leadership". That was when the man said to the woman,<br>
>> "You stay at home, honey, and tend to the hearth, and I'll tend to the<br>
>> business outside, as I have always done". That was when the most insidious<br>
>> transfer of importance and power in the history of humankind took place.<br>
>> Pity. Men began making and enforcing the rules, starting and fighting the<br>
>> wars, writing the books deciding, and defining, what deities we must<br>
>> worship, and generally making a worldwide nuisance of himself.<br>
>><br>
>> Progress?<br>
>><br>
>> Marc Riddell<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> on 2/12/11 5:47 AM, Oliver Keyes at <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:scire.facias@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=scire.facias@gmail.com">scire.facias@gmail.com</a> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> I'm going to go with "because it's a translation of a translation of a<br>
>> translation of a translation of a [positively recurse 50 times] of a<br>
>> translation of a book written by humans, who are fallible, specifically male<br>
>> humans, in a period where gender equality was occasionally allowing your<br>
>> wife to talk, oh, and there's absolutely no evidence the subject of said<br>
>> book existed in the first place".<br>
>><br>
>> Satan crops up twice in the bible. In the mean time, Jezebel, Delilah, Eve<br>
>> and almost every other female character who isn't meek and mild as milk is<br>
>> depicted as being single-handedly responsible for the fall of humanity, the<br>
>> betrayal of Sampson, David's inability to keep his man-parts in his<br>
>> underwear, and everything else that goes wrong with the world. It's no<br>
>> surprise equality has taken so long to even appear on the horizon when<br>
>> people are treating guff like this as an infallible or immutable document.<br>
>><br>
>> On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 10:42 AM, Miguelinito <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:miguelinito@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=miguelinito@gmail.com">miguelinito@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Abraham and Sarah were already very old, and Sarah was past the age of<br>
>> childbearing. So Sarah laughed to herself as she thought, ³After I am worn<br>
>> out and my lord is old, will I now have this pleasure?²<br>
>><br>
>> Then the LORD said to Abraham, ³Why did Sarah laugh and say, ŒWill I really<br>
>> have a child, now that I am old?¹ Is anything too hard for the LORD? I will<br>
>> return to you at the appointed time next year, and Sarah will have a son.²<br>
>><br>
>> Sarah was afraid, so she lied and said, ³I did not laugh.²<br>
>><br>
>> But he said, ³Yes, you did laugh.²<br>
>><br>
>> There's a couple of questions here:<br>
>><br>
>> 1) Why Almighty God chose to be a man?<br>
>><br>
>> 2) Why did Almighty God get angry with the laughter of a simple female<br>
>> mortal? Would he have gotten angry if she, just for *ignorance*, wouldn't<br>
>> have even made herself that question?<br>
>><br>
>> For all of you who read the Bible, this could be a nice topic for<br>
>> reflection. :)<br>
>><br>
>> Regards<br>
>><br>
>> Miguel Ángel<br>
>><br>
>><br>
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--<br>
Saludos,<br>
Miguelinito mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:miguelinito@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=miguelinito@gmail.com">miguelinito@gmail.com</a><br>
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<span style="font-family:'arial';color:#c0c0c0;"><i>-- <br>
Saludos,<br>
Miguelinito <a rel="nofollow" style="font-style:normal;" ymailto="mailto:miguelinito@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=miguelinito@gmail.com">mailto:miguelinito@gmail.com</a>
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