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I like that you brought up the age difference, I do think that is
valid in many areas. As a 30 year old who knows more about Hentai
film than I care to admit I think for me it's more of a
professionalism and "quality" thing over offensive. I just think
it's stupid and lends itself to the invalid-ness that Wikipedia is
trying to shake off. <br>
<br>
Other wiki's like Encyclopedia Dramatica thrive on cartoons and
obnoxious tacky stuff (yeah ok, Pedobear is funny, but...) to
represent it. I don't need my scholarly labor and research to be
associated with that crap.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 2/3/2011 4:57 PM, Nepenthe wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:AANLkTi=rB-Lxi_u97wKzL_PeTQSf7riXQ7-S+DDaApwq@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">I wonder if Wikipe-tan is more of a generational issue
than a gender one. I'm pretty much as humorless feminist as they
come, but being in my early 20s, I grew up with anime and
Wikipe-tan is no more disturbing to me in the Wikipedia context
than if we had come up with a Disney-style mascot not wearing
pants. (Granted, that OS-tans are pretty universally female is
undoubtedly a gender issue and the anime style is a legitimate
concern as well, but I think it's part of culture at large, not
one that Wikimedia can really address.)<br>
<br>
I guess my point is that it might be a wash whether Wikipe-tan
drives off more older editors who find her offensive than she
attracts younger editors who find her friendly and familiar. It's
really a side point though. It never occurred to me that
Wikipe-tan might be considered embarrassing or inappropriate and
I'm finding this conversation eye-opening. <br>
<br>
Nepenthe<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 3:06 PM, Steven
Walling <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:swalling@wikimedia.org">swalling@wikimedia.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding-left: 1ex;">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;">
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div>On Feb 3, 2011, at 12:40 PM, Daniel and Elizabeth
Case wrote:</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Wednesday, February
02, 2011, <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jidanni@jidanni.org"
target="_blank">jidanni@jidanni.org</a>
wrote:<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
K> our "mascot"? An overtly sexualized,
large-breasted woman who people<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">K> regularly draw
in bikinis and maid costumes? I mean, I know<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">K> Wikipe-tan is
not actually The Problem. But she's the most
egregious<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
K> example I think we have of the sort of
unconscious "boyzone" culture<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
Ah, <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipe-tan"
target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipe-tan</a>
.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
I had never seen that, and now that I have I
find it embarrassing for <br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Wikipedia.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
IIRC Wikipe-tan was only originally meant to be
the mascot for WikiProject <br>
Anime and Manga; how she became the avatar for
the project as a whole, I <br>
don't know. She's hardly an inclusive or
representative figure (I'm not a <br>
anime/manga otaku, aside from the other issues)
and we can certainly do <br>
better.<br>
<br>
My own personal notes on signs of a "boyzone"
culture at Wikipedia: the <br>
appearance of [[Lindsay Lohan]], [[Reese
Witherspoon]] and [[Uma Thurman]] <br>
as Main Page FAs within a two-year timespan. And
also the one FA that Raul <br>
quite sensibly (IMO) has decided will never be
on the Main Page.<br>
<br>
In the same category, there's also the
discussion from the top of <br>
[[Talk:KaDee Strickland]] downwards, that ensued
after that article was on <br>
the Main Page. It's hard for me not to see some
of it as misogynistic ...<br>
<br>
Daniel Case <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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href="mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org"
target="_blank">Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org</a><br>
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href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap"
target="_blank">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap</a><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>The whole Wikipe-tan issue isn't limited to Wikipedia
itself either. I participate regularly in the Featured
Picture process on Wikimedia Commons, and have lately
been struggling against media in a similar vein.[1]</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There is a substantial editorial debate around fan
art like this that is in flux on Commons. On the one
hand, it's relatively easy to make the argument that
they're not educational media. However, you still get
people who in all seriousness support promotion of media
like this with comments such as, "I like her big tits."
(That's one extreme example, but it's still a direct
quote.)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Additional voices would be welcome, especially since
Commons is a much smaller community. I think perhaps one
of our first commitments should be to filling the
informal leadership gap others have mentioned by
stepping up and saying what we find to be
unacceptable.[2]</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1. <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Anime_Girl.svg"
target="_blank">http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Anime_Girl.svg</a></div>
2. This talk was humorous, but I think there's some truth
in the slide: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Steven_Walling_Wikipedia_mascots_-_Ignite_Portland_8_-_Portland_Oregon.jpg"
target="_blank">http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Steven_Walling_Wikipedia_mascots_-_Ignite_Portland_8_-_Portland_Oregon.jpg</a></div>
<div><br>
<font color="#888888">
<div>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;">
<div>Steven Walling</div>
<div>Fellow at the Wikimedia Foundation<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://wikimediafoundation.org/"
target="_blank">wikimediafoundation.org</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<br>
</font></div>
</div>
<br>
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href="mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org">Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org</a><br>
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href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap"
target="_blank">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<pre wrap="">
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<div><span style="color: rgb(39, 153, 128);">Sarah Stierch
Consulting</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(39, 153, 128);">Historical, cultural
& artistic research, advising & event planning.</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(39, 153, 128);">------------------------------------------------------</span></div>
<div><a href="http://www.sarahstierch.com" style="color: rgb(39,
153, 128);">http://www.sarahstierch.com/</a></div>
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