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Erik Moeller wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid20040525102837.DB64511581BD@mail.wikimedia.org">
<pre wrap=""><!---->Jimbo is subscribed to the list</pre>
</blockquote>
Yes, but until today, every time I've looked at the list of
subscribers, Jimbo's email was marked as having list delivery disabled.
So as far as I know, he hasn't been reading the messages on this list
for most or all of its existence.
That's not necessarily a criticism of Jimbo, who has many things to
attend to, and can't be everywhere at once. But when we collectively,
consciously or unconsciously, only discuss policy issues "in his
presence", our behavior gives the impression of Jimbo as a
MeatBall:GodKing. A number of people have criticized the way these
mailing lists operate, and some object to participating as a result.
When you can observe differences between one mailing list and another
for reasons like this, it unfortunately gives credence to the criticism
that the mailing list is "like a king's court" (quoting someone else's
phrase). I think the mailing lists are useful, but we need to be aware
of appearances and not reinforce the image of a cabal.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid20040525102837.DB64511581BD@mail.wikimedia.org">
<pre wrap="">but he started the thread on wikipedia-l, so I replied there.</pre>
</blockquote>
Nothing wrong with that, and possibly Jimbo also started the thread
there because you posted the original idea there (before this list ever
existed). Another possible approach is to shift the discussion to the
appropriate mailing list. Given that some people have equated this list
with the defunct and rarely used
wikilegal-l, I think it worthwhile to put a little extra effort into
seeing that this list actually gets used for its intended purpose.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid20040525102837.DB64511581BD@mail.wikimedia.org">
<pre wrap="">Is there any particular reason for this thread to be
in French?</pre>
</blockquote>
Anthere wrote in French, so I replied in French. Since she preferred to
use her native language, for whatever reasons, I considered it a small
show of courtesy and good will to reply in the same language, since I'm
able to. I would be happy to translate into English for anyone who asks.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid20040525102837.DB64511581BD@mail.wikimedia.org">
<pre wrap="">foundation-l and wikipedia-l are multilingual to allow people to communicate who otherwise could not</pre>
</blockquote>
Now that I look closely I see you added something similar to
[[Wikipedia:Mailing lists]] a couple months ago, and apparently nobody
objected. That seems like a pretty restrictive formulation to me, as if
we're only allowing multilingual discussion as a sort of concession,
and you _must_ use English unless you cannot.<br>
<br>
For an organization as diverse and multilingual as Wikimedia, I think
we should take a more friendly attitude toward the use of other
languages. After all, for many languages there are also various people
using the list who can take a stab at translation. I would just as soon
see a person post in their native language, and rely on someone else
with good English skills to translate, than try and sort out from their
broken English what they really meant. Basically, I think it would be
more in keeping with the spirit of the project, if we allow people to
post to project-wide mailing lists in whatever language they choose.
Many will probably prefer to use English, but they don't need to be
told to do so, and by not telling them we do less to intimidate those
who feel less secure in their English.<br>
<br>
Well, I've raised my concerns, and we can discuss it further on the
talk page.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid20040525102837.DB64511581BD@mail.wikimedia.org">
<pre wrap="">not to have semi-private exchanges on a public list.
</pre>
</blockquote>
I see discussions all the time on the mailing lists that are basically
conversations involving a very small handful of people. I don't see
anything wrong with that, any more than there's anything wrong with two
people engaging in a conversation on a talk page, which is equally
public. Whoever is interested can always join in, and I'm happy to
shift between my limited selection of languages to accommodate other
participants.<br>
<br>
--Michael Snow<br>
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