[Foundation-l] Chapters

[Theo10011]

Hi Mike

I was merely pointing out from what I have seen from some of the other EU
chapters. I know as Non-profits they are obligated to comply with local
restrictions, whether those restriction are lax or stringent in comparison
is a matter of opinion but they do exist, is my point. I believe the best
people to address local laws and rules are local organizations, and not an
international one based in another country.

I still see it as a matter of outlook when you say, "WMF is a U.S. nonprofit
and must (at minimum) operate under the U.S. rules", so is a German, French
or a Swiss nonprofit, they must operate under the rules of their own
country. The rules might be more or less stringent but they all have to
comply in order to function. What confounds these requirements is when they
will also have to abide by US rules on top of their own national ones which
doesn't even address accountability to the community itself by either
party.

I absolutely agree that it is not possible to come up with a single model
that fits all when you're dealing with International transfers of charitable
funds (Even one way donations to WMF is more of a problem in "Global
south"). But removing all chapters from fundraising and not even giving them
time to find a local solution, less than an year after they started, doesn't
address those. The fundraiser is global, WMF is still collecting money from
all of these places, the majority of it might be from North America now, but
in order for that to change or improve, local organizations have to be given
freedom to decide what works for them. WMF would still prob. meet most of
its own targets. The issue with the grants model is it doesn't address most
of the issues, just removes local/chapter involvement from fund collection
(it limits their liability too). Money still goes from one country to
another, where a local organization might even already exist, capable of
being tax-deductible and locally responsible, then it comes back through a
grant from a US non-profit to the same non-profit every time.

Wikimedia Deutschland was able to get to a point of being accountable
because it had the chance to do so itself. And that is my point, if we stick
to our tenets we should assume Good faith and give them a chance to develop
what works for them, that will not happen with the grants model - there is
no need to. Local organization are the best fit for local issues.

Theo


On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 3:17 AM, Mike Godwin <mnemonic at gmail.com> wrote:

> Theo writes:
>
> > Second, it might be some form of elitist outlook if you think
> accountability
> > standards for US Non-profits are more transparent and fiscally
> responsible
> > than say somewhere in EU like Germany, France or the Switzerland. I
> assure
> > you, they are existent, not-minimal and more restrictive than the US.
>
> I'm not contradicting (or necessarily agreeing) with other things you
> say in this message, but I want to point out that transnational
> transference of charitable funds is complicated no matter which
> direction the money is flowing in. The real argument (in my personal
> view, and not as a current or former representative of WMF) is not
> that the rules for U.S. nonprofits are "more transparent and fiscally
> responsible" than elsewhere. It's that the WMF is a U.S. nonprofit and
> must (at minimum) operate under the U.S. rules. When you're looking at
> multiple nonprofits (chapters) in many nations, which operate under a
> range of differing regulatory rules about international transfers of
> charitable funds, it is a non-trivial challenge to come up with a
> single joint fundraising model that meets every nation's requirements.
>
> So, when we discuss this issue, it's important that we recognize that
> it's not a question of whose rules are "better," whose motives are
> better, who is more trustworthy, etc.  I believe it's appropriate for
> everybody to continue Assuming Good Faith and to recognize that the
> accountability/legality issue is a complicated one that requires a lot
> of work to solve (and the solution may not be identical for every
> cooperating chapter). Wikimedia Deutschland has invested a lot of
> effort, for example, in developing a solution that works for the
> German chapter, but the solution for another EU chapter (or for
> chapters in the Global South or elsewhere) may look significantly
> different.
>
> This is all further complicated by WMF's obligation to obey U.S. rules.
>
> I'm reminded of the quotation commonly (if not entirely accurately)
> attributed to Einstein: “Everything should be made as simple as
> possible, but no simpler.” (See
> http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein .)
>
>
> --Mike
>
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