[Foundation-l] Analysis of statistics

[Mark Williamson]

This is precisely one of the problems that is holding us back.

Individual prejudices against younger individuals may have scared
younger users away from the project.

When I started at Wikipedia, I noticed several approaches from users:

- Some were initially unaware of my age and were surprised to learn it.
- Of those who knew my age, some treated me as they would treat any other user.
- Others chose to treat me as they might treat their own children,
trying to provide guidance of a parental nature that was sometimes
appreciated but usually was not.
- Some people who intially respected me changed their minds once they
discovered my age. Rather than judge me based on intellect and quality
of my contributions, or even my behavior record (which was, I will
admit, spotty, but better than many seasoned middle-aged Wikipedians),
they found themselves unable to look past the relatively small number
of years I'd been alive.
- A few who initially had little respect for me seemed to change their
minds once they discovered my age.

All in all, I feel that we should basically treat all users the same,
regardless of age. If a 15 year old makes good contributions to an
article on particle physics but they need a little fixing up, it
should be treated the same way as if a 30 year old made the same
contribution - fix it.

If they are making a mess of physics articles, do the same thing you'd
do if a 30 year old were to make a mess of physics articles. Give them
a warning. I recognize that younger users often have a greater
propensity for poor or uncivil behavior onwiki; some admins may feel
like giving them extra chances due to their age. I don't recommend
against this but I don't think it should be necessary. If there is
anything teenagers crave, it is to be treated like adults. In my
experience, as someone who will only stop being a teenager finally in
a few days on 18 August, being treated like an adult encourages a
young person to act more mature.

In conclusion, I think it's quite sad that Henning has displayed such
a negative attitude towards young people. There are a lot of us on the
projects, you might be surprised to see all the contributions we have
made and will continue to make as we grow up with Wikimedia.

Mark


On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Henning
Schlottmann<h.schlottmann at gmx.net> wrote:
> John Vandenberg wrote:
>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 3:27 PM, Henning
>> Schlottmann<h.schlottmann at gmx.net> wrote:
>>> And if there are kids with knowledge and understanding
>>> on these or other topics, they will be fascinated by Wikipedia and find
>>> the project on their own. We don't need to recruit these prodigy childs.
>>
>> Contributors, both young and old, do not need to be interested in the
>> topic they contribute to - they need to see the value of the skills
>> that they acquire in the process.  And we can help them learn about
>> the benefits.
>
> Well it certainly helps if you have a deeper understanding about the
> topics you cover. And Wikipedia once was about people who have certain
> knowledge and enjoy to share it with the world. It was originally not
> about recruiting people to do research into topics they would never have
> researched without Wikipedia.
>
>> On wikimedia, bilingual young people can improve their mastery of
>> second languages by translating articles into different languages.
>
> Oh yeah - that is how most translations look like. A bilingual kid
> trying to improve their mastery of a foreign language. Without even
> understanding the topic of the text he or she is translating. We already
> have too many of those "translations".
>
>> On wikimedia, young people learn how to properly reference an article,
>> which will help them as they progress in their education.
>
> Originally Wikipedia was about People, who could already write academic
> papers and did not need tutoring or learning those abilities on
> Wikipedia for their future life.
>
>> Young people have the most to gain from participating, because the
>> skills that they acquire on wikimedia will stay with them, helping
>> them in their many years to come.
>
> And what does Wikipedia get from those young people? We don't have the
> man power to nanny them or teach them academic writing. We all are
> authors, first and foremost. I'm not going to change the diapers of any
> promising "young people" who would like to make their first attempts of
> focused writing on Wikipedia.
>
> Ciao Henning
>
>
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