[Foundation-l] Wikikids

Wed May 30 08:45:23 UTC 2007

GerardM wrote:
> Hoi,
> You indicate that Wikijunior is a WMF trademark... I would not be so sure
> about that. Is there somewhere a link that indicates this is the case ?

registration in the USA.

Filled up on date 2006-07-07
Last information : dec 06

GOODS AND/OR SERVICES International Class: 041 Class Status: Active 
Providing information in the field of general encyclopedic knowledge for 
children via the Internet Basis: 1(a) First Use Date: 2004-10-24 First 
Use in Commerce Date: 2004-11-07

ant

> NB a domain does not make a trademark
> Thanks,
>    GerardM
> 
> On 5/30/07, Robert Horning <robert_horning at netzero.net> wrote:
>> Gerard Dummer wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> My name is Gerard Dummer and one of the people who started WikiKids.nl.
>> WikiKids started as a project to write an encyclopedia for and by children.
>>> When we started with this project (janauary 2006) we had no idea what
>> you could do with a wiki. And we didn't know if it would work. But we knew
>> that we started a project that could have a great impact on education. That
>> we could realize an authentic learning environment for children. Unlike any
>> other project before to integrate ICT in education. To be precise: for
>> children in the age of 8 - 13.
>>> Along the way we learned quite a lot of things. That is to say about the
>> technical aspect as well as the educational aspects. This is a process that
>> continues untill now and I believe will for the next few years.
>>> There are two main goals: 1)provide information for children to use in
>> assigments 2) create a writing environment.
>>> This is a projected that is most of all an educational project. On the
>> OnderwijsPortaal (EductionPortal) teacher can find different lessonplans,
>> webquests, why they should use WikiKids in their classes and so on:
>> http://kennisnet.wikia.com/wikikids/wiki/Portaal:Onderwijs
>>> This project differs from WikiJunior as mentioned by Mathias.
>>> @Robert. I have no experiences with other WikiMedia projects so I can't
>> say anything about that. I very much believe that children can write
>> articles for eachother. That doesn't mean that the articles are all perfect.
>> But even an article that isn't finished is an opportunity for other children
>> to rewrite that article to improve it. That is of course trying to use a
>> weakness as a strength.
>>> I am very sorry to hear that there where any hostilities. I can't image
>> that we would be hostile to any other Wikimediagroup. I hope this is a
>> misunderstanding or that there is an other explanation.
>>> Also if you could tell something more about what you mean with a
>> "motivated leader". What "next step" should be taken?
>>> @Matthias
>>> Anyone can contribute on WikiKids. Children, teens and adults. Just as
>> long as the subjects are suitable. Just as on Vikidia teenagers also play an
>> important role. Some are sysop.
>>> I agree also with that fact that children can write about a subject. But
>> we also try to stimulate to write an article with a group of children or a
>> class. Everyone can contribute that way.
>>> Gerard Dummer
>>> www.wikikids.nl
>>>
>> This mailing list, in addition to general business about the Wikimedia
>> Foundation, also tends to be a discussion forum for new project ideas.
>> This can take the form of both non-wiki as well as wiki-based projects,
>> and a major reason for this is due to the new projects page on the Meta
>> wiki requesting that individuals wishing to start new projects like this
>> contact this very list.  I've been lurking (and occasionally adding my
>> $0.02 cents along the way) on this mailing list for more than two years,
>> and I've seen these proposals come and go.  Some have been successful
>> and have produced their own independent communities, and a couple have
>> even become full Wikimedia sister projects.  I've even been involved
>> with some of that effort on a few different levels.
>>
>> What I'm talking about here with a "motivated leader" in regards to
>> actually starting a new Wikimedia sister project, as opposed to
>> advertising some wiki-based website that you are seeking some
>> cooperation, is that you can't "own" the idea yourself, no matter how
>> hard you try.  There is a certain bureaucratic process that goes into
>> establishing a sister project, and I'm beginning to see a bit of wisdom
>> to that process as well.  I should note that 95% (I think it is actually
>> worse than this) of all new project ideas are shot down or left in a
>> sort of "development hell" (to borrow a term from the motion picture
>> industry) where a couple of ideas keep recurring, but don't seem to take
>> off for some reason or another.  A children's oriented encyclopedia
>> happens to be one of those recurring ideas, I should point out, and you
>> nor those you are working with are the first to come up with this idea.
>> I don't think you will be the last to bring it up in this forum either.
>>
>> A small number of these projects actually get to the point that instead
>> of "waiting" for approval from the WMF, they simply go and start their
>> own independent wiki server.  The disadvantage of this is that the
>> relationship with the other Wikimedia projects tends to be quite a bit
>> weaker, and many contributors don't see a relationship at all.  The
>> advantages and disadvantages of becoming a Wikimedia sister project are
>> too numerous to mention in a short post, but I could write a multi page
>> paper on that from my experience at this point.  Perhaps I should for an
>> upcoming Wikimania :)
>>
>> To cut to the point, you have been trying to defend your project here on
>> this mailing list, and I'm still not entirely sure what it is that you
>> would like to see happen ultimately with this project proposal of yours
>> if everything went exactly as you would like it to happen.  If your goal
>> here was merely to let people know that your project exists and that you
>> are recruiting individuals to help out, by itself that isn't a terrible
>> thing, but I would note that there are much more effective places and
>> means to "advertise" a non-foundation wiki than on this Foundation
>> mailing list.  I've given some mild criticism, but at the same time this
>> is something that I too would like to developed further.  I should also
>> note that nearly all of the "regular" people who post to this list are
>> usually *very* busy with life, and what free time they have it already
>> devoted to some Wikimedia project, whether as an administrator or key
>> user/community leader on one of the Wikimedia sister projects or with
>> some aspect of the Wikimedia Foundation.  I would much more strongly
>> recommend that you post something on one of the Village Pump pages on
>> Wikipedia if this is your goal, and you will have much more success for
>> your effort.
>>
>> The reason I bring up Wikijunior is because there are people who read
>> the discussion pages for Wikijunior that may have a bit more time on
>> their hands, looking for something more to do that is very similar in
>> nature to what they are already doing with Wikijunior.  And posting a
>> message on those talk pages is not likely to be lost in the pages of
>> debate that sometimes rage on the Village Pump or other high volume
>> discussion forii.  There are topics on the English Wikijunior talk page
>> that are over a year old.... and they do get read by new users all of
>> the time.  The French Wikijunior talk page has only a couple of comments
>> on it, and the Dutch Wikijunior talk page is still blank.  The Dutch
>> Wikibooks "Staff Lounge"
>> (http://nl.wikibooks.org/wiki/Wikibooks:Lerarenkamer) does have some
>> modest discussion about Wikijunior, including some recent comments from
>> what I can see that the Wikimedia trademark "Wikijunior" in the form of
>> (http://www.wikijunior.nl) is currently redirecting to your project.
>> I'll leave that point alone for now, but that may be a minor problem
>> that perhaps should be corrected.
>>
>> I hope that your site remains successful, and there certainly is a
>> learning curve to try and maintain a healthy wiki site.
>>
>> Robert Horning
>>
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