<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 6:29 AM, J JIH <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:jus168jih@gmail.com">jus168jih@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
Neither am I your lawyer, but your points are very interesting and<br>
potentially encouraging. Once the Wikimedia Foundation is able to<br>
accept your points, recent pictures of very old coins may also become<br>
acceptable on Commons, similar to mere copies of very old<br>
2-dimensional works.<br>
<br>
Jusjih<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Lupo points out a flaw in the argument on my talk page: &nbsp;<a href="http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Howcheng&amp;diff=16179935&amp;oldid=15133401">http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Howcheng&amp;diff=16179935&amp;oldid=15133401</a></div>
<div><br></div><div>&quot;Patry argues a fine point whether photos of 3D objects are derivative
works. However, please note that even if such photos are not
derivatives, they are still <i>copies</i> of the 3D object. <a href="http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/United_States_Code/Title_17/Chapter_1/Section_101" class="external text" title="http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/United_States_Code/Title_17/Chapter_1/Section_101" rel="nofollow">17 USC 101</a>
defines copies as &quot;material objects, other than phonorecords, in which
a work is fixed by any method now known or later developed, and from
which the work can be perceived, reproduced, or otherwise communicated,
either directly or with the aid of a machine or device.&quot; <a href="http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/United_States_Code/Title_17/Chapter_1/Sections_105_and_106" class="external text" title="http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/United_States_Code/Title_17/Chapter_1/Sections_105_and_106" rel="nofollow">17 USC 106(1)</a>
gives the copyright owner of the 3D object the exclusive right to &quot;to
reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords&quot;. Hence the
photographer would still need to get the consent of the copyright owner
of the 3D object to even make a photo. Patry acknowledges this himself,
read the comments on the blog article you linked, in particular <a href="http://williampatry.blogspot.com/2008/02/photographs-and-derivative-works.html?showComment=1202223060000#c8671324199605658790" class="external text" title="http://williampatry.blogspot.com/2008/02/photographs-and-derivative-works.html?showComment=1202223060000#c8671324199605658790" rel="nofollow">this comment</a>&nbsp;&lt;<a href="http://williampatry.blogspot.com/2008/02/photographs-and-derivative-works.html?showComment=1202223060000#c8671324199605658790">http://williampatry.blogspot.com/2008/02/photographs-and-derivative-works.html?showComment=1202223060000#c8671324199605658790</a>&gt;:&nbsp;&quot;yes I think a picture of a copyrighted object is a reproduction of that object&quot;. Also <a href="http://williampatry.blogspot.com/2008/03/photographs-are-not-derivative-works.html?showComment=1206038640000#c6248389526681202947" class="external text" title="http://williampatry.blogspot.com/2008/03/photographs-are-not-derivative-works.html?showComment=1206038640000#c6248389526681202947" rel="nofollow">this comment</a>&nbsp;&lt;<a href="http://williampatry.blogspot.com/2008/03/photographs-are-not-derivative-works.html?showComment=1206038640000#c6248389526681202947">http://williampatry.blogspot.com/2008/03/photographs-are-not-derivative-works.html?showComment=1206038640000#c6248389526681202947</a>&gt;&nbsp;from a follow-up blog post on this issue: &quot;even though a photograph
isn&#39;t a derivative work of the object photographed doesn&#39;t mean there
might not be violation of the reproduction right. If I take a photo of
a copyrighted work of art and sell copies, I am violating the
reproduction art even though my photo is not a derivative work of the
art work.&quot; So, it doesn&#39;t matter for us: for photos of copyrighted
artwork, we need the consent of the rights holder of the artwork shown
in the photo (plus that of the photographer, if he isn&#39;t identical to
the uploader)&quot;</div><div><br></div><div>But hopefully Mike can weigh in on this too.</div><div><br></div><div>-h</div></div>