[Commons-l] [Fwd: Pikiwiki - Israel free image collection project - Starting engines]

[Platonides]

ChrisiPK wrote:
> Dror Kamir wrote: 
>> The basic idea (as
>> described in details on the Meta) is to call upon the Israeli public to
>> look in their family albums and private collections for pictures of
>> Israeli-related pictures of special historical, anthropological,
>> archeological, geographical, zoological and/or botanical value.

>> We would like the localized site to serve not
>> only as an upload site but also as an attraction to pupils, students,
>> teacher and the general public, where they can look for images using
>> Hebrew interface
> Actually I don't understand why we need to have a Commons clone in
> Hebrew. Wouldn't it be better if you contributed to the Hebrew
> localisation of the MediaWiki interface and the templates on Commons?

I think they can place it, but if it is not just a upload site it should
provide the full content of commons, not just what has been uploaded
through it.
I see advantage of it, such as automatic category translation, and
probably other details (such as some rtl issues) which can be better
achieved from a website from scratch. Still, as much as possible should
be done diractly at commons.

>> The localized site saves the images temporarily and eventually sends
>> them to the Commons.
> This actually sounds like a very bad idea. Transferring images should
> IMHO not be done automatically without human control.
>(...)

Agree, it'd be desirable that at least one has to give the Ok to the
transfer (you could show them on your site, with a approval
pending/transferred status), so it's not just some random israeli guy
without a clue uploading files to pikiwiki (and thus to commons via your
bot) so you would actually assert that they are right, not dumping to
commoners the work to figure out if they're right or not, specially on a
not-so-common language. I don't think we would be able to handle too
well that added workload. Also not that only one commons admins
understand Hebrew (Avraham, a second one, Jossifresco, is inactive).


> 
>> 1. Users will name the images and describe them in Hebrew. We will add
>> the prefix "Pikiwiki" to the name, and probably an ID which will enable
>> us to locate the image in our own catalog. So a typical name might look
>> something like "pikiwiki_123456_ציפורים_נודדות_מעל_מכתש_רמון.jpg". If
>> friendlier names are required, we will have to think of a better idea.
> Please remember, that Commons is a multi-lingual project. It would be
> great if you could choose to upload the files with English file names.
> Otherwise, I am afraid nobody will be able to make good use of them.
> Only very few people actually speak Hebrew and those who don't find
> themselves unable to even type the file name of the image. That is why
> I'd really prefer to see file names with a latin charset. Adding
> English descriptions also helps other people to understand what the
> image actually shows and to sort the image into categories (I presume
> the bot will be unable to do this, right?).

Categories are important. How do you expect pupils, students, teachers
and public will be able to reach your data, anyway?
I don't really oppose to having the id on the filename, but it shouldn't
be necessary. You should have a table with the internal id and public name.
And all information should also be sent to commons ;)


>> 2. As mentioned above, we would like to present the images on the
>> localized site too, according to localized categories. Therefore, we
>> would like to attach an ID to each image, so we could trace it easily on
>> the Commons. Currently, adding this ID to the image name seems the
>> easiest option.
> As stated above, I don't think we should have a Commons clone site. I
> also don't understand why you need to put IDs in the image file names.
> You store the file name in your database anyway, so why do you still
> need the images to have an ID?


>> 3. Updating images changed since last synchronization.
What do you mean? If it is changed on commons your bot will reupload the
original? What changes on your site are you expecting?


>> 4. Removal of requests for removed images, which were uploaded to
>> WikiMedia.
> I don't understand. Does this feature remove images from your site
> which were deleted on Commons? Or does it try to remove images from
> Commons which were removed on your site?
> 
>> 1. Uploading - WikiMedia Commons does not have an API or other
>> completely supported interface, to allow any operations in their system,
>> without manual intervention.
> Yes, it does. Check http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API for more info on
> the MediaWiki API.

Currently, the API doesn't provide a upload module, but it will soon.

>> 3. Removal of images -ring, it does not support direct image removal,
>> let alone image removal via external system. This synchronization
>> component simulates fake JS requests and image information updates to
>> notify...

This section is the most you're explaining in depth your inside system
design which I'm not sure why is it needed, and does look like a hack.

I think you should begin by explaining which features are you expecting
pikiwiki to have. Then, it should be analyzed how to perform them,
trying to keep as much as posible at commons.
Then there would begin the searching for solutions: can it be solved
just by applying a new skin to commons? How to replicate commons
activity?...


I understand that you were coming here with a clear idea in your mind
which you considered perfect and we're now slowing you down, but we only
want to make things better :-)