Launch as Beta, sort out images on the fly - Wikivoyage-l

James Heilman

4 Nov 4 Nov

4:23 a.m.

Okay completely. It would be nice to have the new logo before the official launch. James Heilman On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 10:01 PM, Jani Patokallio <jpatokal(a)iki.fi> wrote:

...

A +1 for the suggestion to launch Wikivoyage-at-WMF now, but as "beta", and solicit help from the community to fix up the links. I think it's important to have everything in its final place and final host, so we can be sure that "what you see is what you get" and a page fixed now will stay fixed. Once the images are sorted out (and, possibly, a new logo chosen?), we can make the launch official, issue press releases etc, and start drawing wider Internet attention to the site. Cheers, -jani ______________________________**_________________ Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l(a)lists.wikimedia.**org <Wikivoyage-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l<https://list…

-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine www.opentextbookofmedicine.com

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James Heilman

5:05 a.m.

Hey All I have put together, what I hope is a balanced straw poll on this matter here http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Travel_Guide/Launch Please weight in. James Heilman On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 11:02 PM, Erik Moeller <erik(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

...

On Nov 3, 2012 9:01 PM, "Jani Patokallio" <jpatokal <jpatokal@iki.fi>@<jpatokal@iki.fi> iki.fi <jpatokal(a)iki.fi>> wrote:

A +1 for the suggestion to launch Wikivoyage-at-WMF now, but as "beta",

and solicit help from the community to fix up the links. I think it's important to have everything in its final place and final host, so we can be sure that "what you see is what you get" and a page fixed now will stay fixed. Note also that there'll be lots of small and bigger issues we need to sort out in the first few weeks post-migration: - properly resolving username issues (merging wv accounts with identical wm accounts, renaming conflicting usernames, offering ways to migrate accounts that didn't opt into the data transfer, etc.) - testing extensions to ensure everything is working as before - smaller configuration tweaks (namespaces, site settings etc.) - setting up mobile main pages - fixing templates (see note on stringfunctions) .... So in general I'd say calling the site "beta" post launch sounds like a good idea. We've done pre-testing and will do more, but some issues will only become apparent in production, and some (like the user account issues) by definition can only happen post-launch. That won't change if we defer the launch, so if we defer we'll still have a "beta" site with some glitches but more images migrated. In contrast, if we use November as a beta/cleanup month, we can shoot for a proper launch (with new logo and hopefully most issues resolved) in December. Erik _______________________________________________ Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l

-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine www.opentextbookofmedicine.com

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James Heilman

4:44 p.m.

Sure I am sure we can import wts and Shared to Wikimedia Commons. Just because the foundation does not wish to do it does not mean we as community members cannot. Just to be clear the foundation rarely gets involved with content issues. Content is usually dealt with by the community. We make a bot, we get consensus for the bot. The bot checks copyright. The bot move all the images to commons. The problem is solved no? 15,000 to 40,000 images could be take care of in a week or two if we can get consensus. James Heilman On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 9:32 AM, Peter B Fitzgerald <pbf5(a)georgetown.edu>wrote;wrote:

...

While I think a Beta launch makes sense anyway, and don't want to see the migration delayed, can we please reconsider the decision to not import Shared and wts? I don't understand the reasons for this decision, but understand pretty intimately the reasons why it will cause problems. We could probably shut them down at the end of the month at the rate that our volunteer contributors are going in terms of moving them to Commons, so what's the great harm in having them open in the meanwhile? -Peter On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 1:05 AM, James Heilman <jmh649(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Hey All I have put together, what I hope is a balanced straw poll on this matter here http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Travel_Guide/Launch Please weight in. James Heilman On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 11:02 PM, Erik Moeller <erik(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

On Nov 3, 2012 9:01 PM, "Jani Patokallio" <jpatokal <jpatokal@iki.fi>@<jpatokal@iki.fi> iki.fi <jpatokal(a)iki.fi>> wrote:

A +1 for the suggestion to launch Wikivoyage-at-WMF now, but as

"beta", and solicit help from the community to fix up the links. I think it's important to have everything in its final place and final host, so we can be sure that "what you see is what you get" and a page fixed now will stay fixed. Note also that there'll be lots of small and bigger issues we need to sort out in the first few weeks post-migration: - properly resolving username issues (merging wv accounts with identical wm accounts, renaming conflicting usernames, offering ways to migrate accounts that didn't opt into the data transfer, etc.) - testing extensions to ensure everything is working as before - smaller configuration tweaks (namespaces, site settings etc.) - setting up mobile main pages - fixing templates (see note on stringfunctions) .... So in general I'd say calling the site "beta" post launch sounds like a good idea. We've done pre-testing and will do more, but some issues will only become apparent in production, and some (like the user account issues) by definition can only happen post-launch. That won't change if we defer the launch, so if we defer we'll still have a "beta" site with some glitches but more images migrated. In contrast, if we use November as a beta/cleanup month, we can shoot for a proper launch (with new logo and hopefully most issues resolved) in December. Erik _______________________________________________ Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l

-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine www.opentextbookofmedicine.com _______________________________________________ Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l

_______________________________________________ Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l

-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine www.opentextbookofmedicine.com

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James Heilman

11:40 p.m.

Yes and wts and Shared from what I understand are staying up and running as operated by WV. They also will remain editable. Manual review can continue with either manual or bot transfer to commons. Otherwise where are they supposed to be imported to? The wiki languages locally followed by a gradual move from local to commons? Yes that could be an option. Or do you mean that the WMF should host an exact full copy of these databases? Not sure why it matters if the WMF or WV hosts the database at this point. I do not understand what some feel the WMF is not doing or what people want the WMF to do? James Heilman On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 9:52 AM, Peter B Fitzgerald <pbf5(a)georgetown.edu>wrote;wrote:

...

No, I mean import the wts and Shared versions and let the language versions then use them as normal. A tremendous manual review is needed; bots alone will not suffice. There is a three-part process needed (and currently underway) to migrate the content, which will be impeded greatly if wts and Shared are not imported: 1. Tag files to be moved, deleted/ignored, or kept local on wts and Shared. 2. Move the files. 3. Review transferred files on Commons and clean up templates and categories. One good example of why we need the repositories until step 1 is finished: Right now we have a bot updating links on the language versions to point to WMC files that are duplicates of WTS files, but have a different name. Moving without the repositories would shut down that process/make it harder. That's just one example, though, and there are many more. Again, I don't understand why the WMF would make this so much more difficult, and would appreciate a more detailed explanation, at the very least. -Peter On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 11:44 AM, James Heilman <jmh649(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Sure I am sure we can import wts and Shared to Wikimedia Commons. Just because the foundation does not wish to do it does not mean we as community members cannot. Just to be clear the foundation rarely gets involved with content issues. Content is usually dealt with by the community. We make a bot, we get consensus for the bot. The bot checks copyright. The bot move all the images to commons. The problem is solved no? 15,000 to 40,000 images could be take care of in a week or two if we can get consensus. James Heilman On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 9:32 AM, Peter B Fitzgerald <pbf5(a)georgetown.edu>wrote;wrote:

While I think a Beta launch makes sense anyway, and don't want to see the migration delayed, can we please reconsider the decision to not import Shared and wts? I don't understand the reasons for this decision, but understand pretty intimately the reasons why it will cause problems. We could probably shut them down at the end of the month at the rate that our volunteer contributors are going in terms of moving them to Commons, so what's the great harm in having them open in the meanwhile? -Peter On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 1:05 AM, James Heilman <jmh649(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Hey All I have put together, what I hope is a balanced straw poll on this matter here http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Travel_Guide/Launch Please weight in. James Heilman On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 11:02 PM, Erik Moeller <erik(a)wikimedia.org>wrote;wrote: > > On Nov 3, 2012 9:01 PM, "Jani Patokallio" <jpatokal <jpatokal@iki.fi>@<jpatokal@iki.fi> > iki.fi <jpatokal(a)iki.fi>> wrote: > > > > A +1 for the suggestion to launch Wikivoyage-at-WMF now, but as > "beta", and solicit help from the community to fix up the links. I think > it's important to have everything in its final place and final host, so we > can be sure that "what you see is what you get" and a page fixed now will > stay fixed. > > Note also that there'll be lots of small and bigger issues we need to > sort out in the first few weeks post-migration: > > - properly resolving username issues (merging wv accounts with > identical wm accounts, renaming conflicting usernames, offering ways to > migrate accounts that didn't opt into the data transfer, etc.) > - testing extensions to ensure everything is working as before > - smaller configuration tweaks (namespaces, site settings etc.) > - setting up mobile main pages > - fixing templates (see note on stringfunctions) > .... > > So in general I'd say calling the site "beta" post launch sounds like > a good idea. We've done pre-testing and will do more, but some issues will > only become apparent in production, and some (like the user account issues) > by definition can only happen post-launch. That won't change if we defer > the launch, so if we defer we'll still have a "beta" site with some > glitches but more images migrated. > > In contrast, if we use November as a beta/cleanup month, we can shoot > for a proper launch (with new logo and hopefully most issues resolved) in > December. > > Erik > > _______________________________________________ > Wikivoyage-l mailing list > Wikivoyage-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l > > -- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine www.opentextbookofmedicine.com _______________________________________________ Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l

_______________________________________________ Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l

-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine www.opentextbookofmedicine.com _______________________________________________ Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l

_______________________________________________ Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l

-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine www.opentextbookofmedicine.com

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