Where to host wikimedia related software projects

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Petr Bena

20 Feb 2012 20 Feb '12

10:55 a.m.

Hi folks, we have had some discussion with other devs of huggle and I have a question, what is the best location to host wikimedia related projects? Documentation / web pages (preferably a wiki), I guess most suitable is mww but that one should be for mediawiki only or not? I am talking about projects like awb, pywikipediabot, dotnetwikibot, bots, labs and many others. I think we should either create a category for these at mww or maybe create a new wiki just for various software projects and related documentation? I would rather prefer first option for now, because it's not so hard to maintain and I don't think there is really a need to open whole new wiki just for documentation and various wikimedia projects, like labs etc. Second question is where to host source code and files? Some projects are using 3rd providers, however there is an idea to move huggle repository to wikimedia git after it's set up, it would be good to have all sources on one place so that it's easier to find various projects people might be interested in.

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Bináris

20 Feb 20 Feb

11:08 a.m.

Pywikibot has a problem with that, and there was an open discuss. See http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/pywikipedia-l/2011-February/thread.htm… with the topic "pywikipediabot.org <http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/pywikipedia-l/2011-February/006676.html> " -- Bináris

Strainu

11:44 a.m.

În data de 20 februarie 2012, 12:55, Petr Bena <benapetr(a)gmail.com> a scris:

...

I'm guessing each project should answer this according to it's own size and needs. One-size-fits-all answers probably don't exist. We're hosting code specific to ro.wp on Google Code, toghether with some OSM code. Given the poor experience I've had with planet.wikimedia.org in Romanian, I don't think that moving all the code to Wikipedia is such a good idea. 3rd party project hosting providers do their best to offer as many features as possible in a very simple way. The WMF OPS team is not made for that. Strainu

Petr Bena

12:22 p.m.

Wmf ops probably don't, but thanks to labs we could probably create a new infrastructure managed by community developers, where we could host the sites / documentation and repository for code all under one wmf domain like development.wikimedia.org/wiki etc. I think we could host the source code using the wikimedia git, but problem is with repository of installation packages to download and webserver to host the related wiki / site on, I think either labs could be perfect for this, or some wiki dedicated to developers On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 12:44 PM, Strainu <strainu10(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

În data de 20 februarie 2012, 12:55, Petr Bena <benapetr(a)gmail.com> a scris:

mww

but that one should be for mediawiki only or not? I am talking about projects like awb, pywikipediabot, dotnetwikibot, bots, labs and many others. I think we should either create a category for these at mww or maybe create a new wiki just for various software projects and related documentation? I would rather prefer first option for now, because it's

not

so hard to maintain and I don't think there is really a need to open

whole

new wiki just for documentation and various wikimedia projects, like labs etc. Second question is where to host source code and files? Some

projects

are using 3rd providers, however there is an idea to move huggle

repository

to wikimedia git after it's set up, it would be good to have all sources

one place so that it's easier to find various projects people might be interested in.

Sumana Harihareswara

12:26 p.m.

Petr, Thanks for bringing this up. I have some opinions on this, but I -- like many WMF engineering staff -- have today as a holiday (Presidents' Day). Can this decision wait until tomorrow? best, -- Sumana Harihareswara Volunteer Development Coordinator Wikimedia Foundation On 02/20/2012 07:22 AM, Petr Bena wrote:

...

În data de 20 februarie 2012, 12:55, Petr Bena <benapetr(a)gmail.com> a scris:

mww

not

so hard to maintain and I don't think there is really a need to open

whole

new wiki just for documentation and various wikimedia projects, like labs etc. Second question is where to host source code and files? Some

projects

are using 3rd providers, however there is an idea to move huggle

repository

to wikimedia git after it's set up, it would be good to have all sources

one place so that it's easier to find various projects people might be interested in.

_______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Maarten Dammers

8:24 p.m.

Hi Petr, Op 20-2-2012 11:55, Petr Bena schreef:

...

we have had some discussion with other devs of huggle and I have a question, what is the best location to host wikimedia related projects?

www.mediawiki.org . Creating another wiki will just be a lot of extra work. Maarten

Gregory Varnum

8:35 p.m.

I think the debate is more Meta wiki or MediaWiki.org. Petr - my understanding is that Huggle can be utilized by non-WMF wikis. As such, I'd recommend (or advocate for) MediaWiki.org to house it. Probably in the main namespace - which (again - as I understand it) houses things specific to MediaWiki software that isn't documentation (Manual:), extensions (Extension:) or API (API:) related. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I've generally understand the division between the two development wikis (not counting the operations wiki) as: - MediaWiki.org: Anything software development related to the MediaWiki software itself - including supplementals - so long as it is not WMF-exclusive - such as extensions, MW manual, non-app mobile code, etc. - Meta's Developer Hub: Anything software development exclusive to WMF projects (but not necessarily project specific) - such as toolserver, WMF specific bots (outside pywikipedia), WP mobile apps (I imagine a lot of work would be required to make them work for non-WP sites), SUL, etc. My two cents. :) -greg aka varnent On Feb 20, 2012, at 3:24 PM, Maarten Dammers <maarten(a)mdammers.nl> wrote:

...

Hi Petr, Op 20-2-2012 11:55, Petr Bena schreef:

we have had some discussion with other devs of huggle and I have a question, what is the best location to host wikimedia related projects?

www.mediawiki.org . Creating another wiki will just be a lot of extra work. Maarten _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Nickanc Wikipedia

8:45 p.m.

Remember that for bots we have also http://botwiki.sno.cc 2012/2/20 Gregory Varnum <gregory.varnum(a)gmail.com>om>:

...

Hi Petr, Op 20-2-2012 11:55, Petr Bena schreef:

we have had some discussion with other devs of huggle and I have a question, what is the best location to host wikimedia related projects?

_______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Max Semenik

8:46 p.m.

On 21.02.2012, 0:35 Gregory wrote:

...

I think the debate is more Meta wiki or MediaWiki.org.

...

Petr - my understanding is that Huggle can be utilized by non-WMF wikis. As such, I'd recommend (or advocate for) MediaWiki.org to house it. Probably in the main namespace - which (again - as I understand it) houses things specific to MediaWiki software that isn't documentation (Manual:), extensions (Extension:) or API (API:) related.

...

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I've generally understand the division between the two development wikis (not counting the operations wiki) as:

...

- MediaWiki.org: Anything software development related to the MediaWiki software itself - including supplementals - so long as it is not WMF-exclusive - such as extensions, MW manual, non-app mobile code, etc.

...

- Meta's Developer Hub: Anything software development exclusive to WMF projects (but not necessarily project specific) - such as toolserver, WMF specific bots (outside pywikipedia), WP mobile apps (I imagine a lot of work would be required to make them work for non-WP sites), SUL, etc.

Gregory Varnum

9:07 p.m.

I like the idea of a namespace for Tool: (or similar). While we're adding namespaces - what about Book: (s?): for the growing number of planned additions to the new MediaWiki Virtual Library that Wikinaut and others are working on? Already been decide housing them on MW.org is most appropriate - for now on Manual: - but mimicking a more WMF-usual books namespace approach might be appropriate and help encourage creation of more helpful books. -greg On Feb 20, 2012, at 3:46 PM, Max Semenik <maxsem.wiki(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 21.02.2012, 0:35 Gregory wrote:

I think the debate is more Meta wiki or MediaWiki.org.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I've generally understand the division between the two development wikis (not counting the operations wiki) as:

Imho, a separate namespace should be created on mw.org for such things, called Tool: or something. We already have a lot of absolutely unrelated stuff in mainspace, would be great to sort them out. -- Best regards, Max Semenik ([[User:MaxSem]]) _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Chad

9:09 p.m.

On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 4:07 PM, Gregory Varnum <gregory.varnum(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Agreed. Namespaces are cheap and I'm always in favor of reducing mainspace clutter. -Chad

K. Peachey

9:25 p.m.

MediaWiki Wiki if they work on any mediawiki install by default(ish). If they needs hacks to work, ideally elsewhere

Gregory Varnum

9:42 p.m.

Hacks to MW core or to their software? If just their software (which I think is the case) - doesn't seem any different from extensions which need some additional configuring. Although - either way - housing it elsewhere only seems to add to the complexity for SysAdmins. Where else within WMF would they house it and are we then more comfortable with them housing it outside WMF? -greg On Feb 20, 2012, at 4:25 PM, K. Peachey <p858snake(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

MediaWiki Wiki if they work on any mediawiki install by default(ish). If they needs hacks to work, ideally elsewhere _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

K. Peachey

11:34 p.m.

On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 7:42 AM, Gregory Varnum <gregory.varnum(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Hacks to MW core or to their software?

Either

...

If just their software (which I think is the case) - doesn't seem any different from extensions which need some additional configuring.

Config Settings != Hacking to make it work. The only extensions that are on MediaWiki wiki that in theory would need hacking up/altering to work would be old and unloved one.

Petr Bena

21 Feb 21 Feb

8:15 a.m.

In this case I am talking about sw related to wmf projects, so it needs hack in order to make it work on other wikis, however I support one wiki, so doesn't matter where it should be, but we should have all tools on one place, splitting wmf to meta and general to other wikis would not help much. On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 12:34 AM, K. Peachey <p858snake(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 7:42 AM, Gregory Varnum <gregory.varnum(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Hacks to MW core or to their software?

Either

If just their software (which I think is the case) - doesn't seem any

different from extensions which need some additional configuring. Config Settings != Hacking to make it work. The only extensions that are on MediaWiki wiki that in theory would need hacking up/altering to work would be old and unloved one. _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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participants (10)

Bináris
Chad
Gregory Varnum
K. Peachey
Maarten Dammers
Max Semenik
Nickanc Wikipedia
Petr Bena
Strainu
Sumana Harihareswara