Mark Williamson a écrit:
>Mark Williamson a écrit:
>
>>Hello Anthere,
>>
>>It has already been resolved that most likely censorship of the
>>Kurdish Wikipedia has been by individual netcafes, and not by the
>>government.
Do you
have facts to assert this ?
I did not see anything else than hearsay.
We have the statement of a ku.wikipedia contributor who confirms he
can access ku.wikipedia from his university, but not from a particular
netcafe.
Right....
Well, this is a fact (though no name is provided).
Now, this is also a collection of hasty generalization
Right...
Do not claim something is true when you do not cite
evidence
Do not claim something is true over just one sample person experience
Do not draw conclusion of censorship when information is missing to draw
such a conclusion.
Quote: "Adding new languages is certainly a strain on developers. It
certainly will be that this project will grow slowly (it would be
wiser perhaps to work mostly on wiktionary rather than wikipedia to
start with), but I do not think we should on purpose limit the
existence of small projects on the motive there will be few editors to
work on." (Anthere)
You claim something is true (strain on developers) without citing
evidence, you claim it is true from your own experience presumably,
and you claim it as a fact when in fact the next message was a message
from TimStarling contradicting what you said: "It's not that much of a
strain. I actually added this to the language list as soon as I saw
the post, thinking that since it has an ISO 639-2 code, it would be
uncontroversial."
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
Also, such actions to censor minority language
websites are
common in Turkish netcafes.
Do not generalized without citing facts.
Do not make appeal to pity by using the word minority out of context.
I think the passage I quoted above is a generalisation without a
citation of fact on your part.
Apparently, you need to look at the Ethnologue because Kurdish,
Ladino, and all other non-Turkish languages of Turkey are minority
languages - that is, they are spoken by less than 50% of the
population. I fail to see how this is out of context, as it is an
undeniable fact that, in the present boundaries of the nation of
"Turkey", the majority language is Turkish, and thus all other
languages are "minority languages" within the boundaries of that
state.
However I think
I should make it very clear that I think any such
involvement should be independent of Wikipedia or ODP officially, even
if some editors are involved.
Mark
Independant ? Hmmmm, somehow, I think that any
letter send with as a
signature the name of an editor and the link to his user page, is not
exactly what I would call independant.
Right, so if I sent a letter to the government of Turkey requesting
the release of H. Ertas, who was jailed just for editing a
Turkish-language Kurdish culture category (not as I said earlier a
category on terrorist groups) on DMOZ, there is some sort of
requirement that, as a Wikipedian, I sign it "Mark Williamson
(Wikipedia user Node_ue)"? There is life outside of Wikipedia, and
there is activism independent of Wikipedia. I do not sign letters with
my username and the fact that I am a Wikipedian unless it's relevant
to the letter itself.
Do not change topics. We are talking of Wikipedia access only, not of
the DMOZ issue.
Perhaps you did not read the letter which started this thread, written
by Erdal Ronahi, in which he mentions the DMOZ issue? This is a
mailinglist, and I will change topics whenever I want, regardless of
what you say.
If you want to be an activist out of Wikipedia, please
be so, but do not
try to involve us in your advocacy.
When did I try to involve "you" in "my advocacy"? I never said
"Antheres of the world, I call upon you to support me in my
advocacy!".
Give it time.
Is this what you tell H. Ertas, who is going to spend the next ten
months in prison just for editing a culture category on DMOZ? "Give it
time, you will get out of prison eventually"?
And above all, avoid sneaky personal attacks.
You said "give it time" in direct response to what I said. If you
propose to give it time, this means to me the same as if you said
"Give it time, you will get out of prison eventually" to Mr H Ertas.
That is not a sneaky personal attack.
And I have this to say as well: above all, avoid assuming a hostile
tone in messages unless you feel you will later be able to explain
your tone, especially when the previous message is not hostile in
tone.
Mark