On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Jeroen Heijmans wrote: Precisely. Accountability is one thing. That's absolutely key, we can all agree. But provoking a needlessly hostile or confrontational scene whenever you disagree with someone, on the most minor issues--that's totally unnecessary. Unfortunately, it's been a traditional part of Wikipedia at least since I became Wikipedia's resident whipping boy. :-) Now that I'm officially no longer the project leader (thank god), I see the same venom directed at others. There's no reason for this; a little kindness, *please*! Larry

Jeronimo wrote: I haven't been keeping up with the deletion log myself, but from the example presented here (by both sides), I agree. I just want André et al to be able to do these deletions without upsetting people (which results in these arguments). FWIW, I do not agree with The Cunctator that, should this soft deletion proposal be implemented, a single restoration decides the question once and for all. We still need to discuss policy for soft deletion (along the lines of naming conventions etc), and in that discussion I support deleting mere definitions (much more what doesn't even amount to a real definition). That's why I'm putting forward this proposal. Right now, The Cunctator is coming to the list, and he and Fredbauder are forcing you to defend yourself. With my proposal, you'll give your reason for deletion for the recent changes (as you do now for the deletion log) and any objection to that properly goes on the deleted page's talk page. And I really don't think that you'll get objections most of the time. People should be embarrassed to revive a useless page without improving it, and if they do improve it, then you'll be happy with it undeleted. After all, The Cunctator's party argues that the existence of stubs, even the pitiful microstubs, leads to the improvement of articles. Let them show this by improving articles when they revive them. If they do this, then they will have been proved right, but the effect will be good and nobody will have any cause to complain. If they don't do this, then they will have been proved wrong, and those of us that are ambivalent will join your party and crush Cunc. -- Toby