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Frederick Noronha

20 Apr 2007 20 Apr '07

5:23 a.m.

This page on a prominent alternate global media event is being called "blatant advertising for a company, product, group, service or person". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OURMedia/NUESTROSMedios To my mind, it is a listing of themes at the conference, and participants, together with some background (including past conferences) that led to the growth of the network. Could others please give their inputs on this? FN -- FN M: 0091 9822122436 P: +91-832-240-9490 (after 1300IST please) http://fn.goa-india.org http://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com Konkani Wikipedia (under incubation) needs your help! http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/kok

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Angela

20 Apr 20 Apr

5:35 a.m.

On 4/20/07, Frederick Noronha <fred(a)bytesforall.org> wrote:

...

This page on a prominent alternate global media event is being called "blatant advertising for a company, product, group, service or person".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OURMedia/NUESTROSMedios I removed content on this from [[Ourmedia]] a year ago since the group had only 279 members and probably didn't deserve an article. Angela

Frederick Noronha

5:47 a.m.

Numbers are important. But I don't think everything can be judged by numbers alone. (Someone was asking on a journalism mailing list how 30+ US lives match up with 190+ in Iraq as far as the mainstream media goes! Then, if everything went by numbers alone, one-seventh of the Wikipedia's content should have focussed on India, and about one-sixth on China. But we know that doesn't happen! So, we seem to be facing the pinch both ways! When it comes to non-inclusion, and when it comes to deletion.) Also, what happens when a network is based outside of the "cities that matter"? Visibility is going to be a further issue, specially when communication is in, say, Spanish! It's hard for me to imagine how http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clemencia_Rodriguez gets tagged for 'non-notability'. Either someone is misunderstanding things here, or the criteria is really bizarre. Take a look at the comment by BineMaya at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Clemencia_Rodriguez in response to this. These are issues that those building alternatives have to face up to. We seem to be failing in reflecting diversity at a global scale. Are we even trying? FN On 20/04/07, Angela <beesley(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 4/20/07, Frederick Noronha <fred(a)bytesforall.org> wrote:

This page on a prominent alternate global media event is being called "blatant advertising for a company, product, group, service or person".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OURMedia/NUESTROSMedios I removed content on this from [[Ourmedia]] a year ago since the group had only 279 members and probably didn't deserve an article. Angela

David Gerard

7:30 a.m.

On 20/04/07, Frederick Noronha <fred(a)bytesforall.org> wrote:

...

Also, what happens when a network is based outside of the "cities that matter"? Visibility is going to be a further issue, specially when communication is in, say, Spanish! It's hard for me to imagine how http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clemencia_Rodriguez gets tagged for 'non-notability'. Either someone is misunderstanding things here, or the criteria is really bizarre. Take a look at the comment by BineMaya at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Clemencia_Rodriguez in response to this.

If you want some visibility to this problem, I would (once again) suggest emailing wikien-l as well - that is, the list specifically for English Wikipedia. - d.

J.L.W.S. The Special One

9:18 a.m.

Is systemic bias (due to poor judgements of notability) a problem unique to the English edition of Wikipedia? 2007/4/20, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com>om>:

...

On 20/04/07, Frederick Noronha <fred(a)bytesforall.org> wrote:

If you want some visibility to this problem, I would (once again) suggest emailing wikien-l as well - that is, the list specifically for English Wikipedia. - d. _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l

Matthew Brown

7:37 p.m.

On 4/20/07, J.L.W.S. The Special One <hildanknight(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Is systemic bias (due to poor judgements of notability) a problem unique to the English edition of Wikipedia?

I am not familiar with the systemic biases of Wikipedia editions I don't edit, but I'd suggest that while wider concerns about systemic bias are appropriate for this list, discussion about a specific incident might get a wider response on the list associated with the Wikipedia edition in question. So it really depends on whether Frederick Noronha wishes to talk about the problem in general or wants to address that specific deletion. -Matt

Frederick Noronha

21 Apr 21 Apr

2:53 a.m.

Well, I've faced issues with deletion of pages which deserve to be in the Wikipedia. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fredericknoronha It might be that editors unfamiliar with a subject decide over the same. Also groups working in non-English languages seem to be having a more difficult time to stay on the Wikipedia. Likewise, those from smaller groups on the "periphery" and outside the bigger centres. --FN On 21/04/07, Matthew Brown <morven(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 4/20/07, J.L.W.S. The Special One <hildanknight(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Is systemic bias (due to poor judgements of notability) a problem unique to the English edition of Wikipedia?

Mark Williamson

6:36 p.m.

What we're talking about here is the fact that there is not just one monolithic "the Wikipedia". There are over one hundred (is it 200 yet?). I'm sure notability is an issue in all Wikis. I, for one, have heard of certain smaller Wikis which say "This topic is something our readers would never care about, we should delete it", knowing full well that it would be kept on the English Wikipedia because it is notable in _some_ sector of the world, just not their own. Mark On 20/04/07, Frederick Noronha <fred(a)bytesforall.org> wrote:

...

On 4/20/07, J.L.W.S. The Special One <hildanknight(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Is systemic bias (due to poor judgements of notability) a problem unique to the English edition of Wikipedia?

-- FN M: 0091 9822122436 P: +91-832-240-9490 (after 1300IST please) http://fn.goa-india.org http://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com Konkani Wikipedia (under incubation) needs your help! http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/kok _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l

-- Refije dirije lanmè yo paske nou posede pwòp bato.

Andre Engels

8:19 p.m.

2007/4/21, Mark Williamson <node.ue(a)gmail.com>om>:

...

What we're talking about here is the fact that there is not just one monolithic "the Wikipedia". There are over one hundred (is it 200 yet?).

250 even. -- Andre Engels, andreengels(a)gmail.com ICQ: 6260644 -- Skype: a_engels

Berto 'd Sera

22 Apr 22 Apr

1:29 p.m.

New subject: Can anyone tell me

Hoi! Can anyone tell me whether using images from commons like this http://bargewiki.i-iter.org/vecht-0 is okay with the GNU license? If not, what do we need to do to be allright? Bèrto d Sèra Personagi dlann 2006 për larvista american-a Time (tanme tuti vojàotri) http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1569514,00.html

Marco Chiesa

1:44 p.m.

New subject: Can anyone tell me

On 4/22/07, Berto 'd Sera <albertoserra(a)ukr.net> wrote:

...

Hoi! Can anyone tell me whether using images from commons like this http://bargewiki.i-iter.org/vecht-0 is okay with the GNU license? I'd say that, since that particular image is PD, your use is 100% correct.

Cruccone

Berto 'd Sera

1:48 p.m.

New subject: Can anyone tell me

Hoi! What for a more general rule? Berto 'd Sera Personagi dl'ann 2006 per l'arvista american-a Time (tanme tuti vojaotri) http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1569514,00.html -----Original Message----- From: wikipedia-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Marco Chiesa Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 4:45 PM To: wikipedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Can anyone tell me On 4/22/07, Berto 'd Sera <albertoserra(a)ukr.net> wrote:

...

Cruccone _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l

Marco Chiesa

1:57 p.m.

New subject: Can anyone tell me

On 4/22/07, Berto 'd Sera <albertoserra(a)ukr.net> wrote:

...

Hoi! What for a more general rule? I think it depends on the license of the image. If attribution is

required, than you have to indicate the author(s), and same for the license (for double licensing you can choose the one you prefer). I don't know if linking back to commons is necessary. Cruccone

David Gerard

2:16 p.m.

New subject: Can anyone tell me

On 22/04/07, Berto 'd Sera <albertoserra(a)ukr.net> wrote:

...

What for a more general rule?

Image by image. See: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Reuse Does this answer your question in general? It's meant for just this sort of question. - d.

Berto 'd Sera

2:20 p.m.

New subject: Can anyone tell me

Yes thanks :) exactly what I needed :) Berto 'd Sera Personagi dl'ann 2006 per l'arvista american-a Time (tanme tuti vojaotri) http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1569514,00.html -----Original Message----- From: wikipedia-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of David Gerard Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 5:17 PM To: wikipedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Can anyone tell me On 22/04/07, Berto 'd Sera <albertoserra(a)ukr.net> wrote:

...

What for a more general rule?

Image by image. See: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Reuse Does this answer your question in general? It's meant for just this sort of question. - d. _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l

Miguel Bravo-Ferrer

23 Apr 23 Apr

6:34 p.m.

Angela beesley wrote

...

I removed content on this from [[Ourmedia]] a year ago since the group had only 279 members and probably didn't deserve an article.

I support your decision ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angela" <beesley(a)gmail.com> To: <wikipedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 7:35 AM Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] More on page deletions...

...

On 4/20/07, Frederick Noronha <fred(a)bytesforall.org> wrote:

This page on a prominent alternate global media event is being called "blatant advertising for a company, product, group, service or person".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OURMedia/NUESTROSMedios I> Angela _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l __________ Información de NOD32, revisión 2211 (20070423) __________ Este mensaje ha sido analizado con NOD32 antivirus system http://www.nod32.com

Frederick Noronha

8:40 p.m.

On what grounds? That smaller groups are necessarily non-notable? Or that only large groups can do positive work? FN On 24/04/07, Miguel Bravo-Ferrer <miguel.bravoferrer(a)abg-abogados.es> wrote:

...

Angela beesley wrote

I removed content on this from [[Ourmedia]] a year ago since the group had only 279 members and probably didn't deserve an article.

On 4/20/07, Frederick Noronha <fred(a)bytesforall.org> wrote:

This page on a prominent alternate global media event is being called "blatant advertising for a company, product, group, service or person".

_______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l

Miguel Bravo-Ferrer

24 Apr 24 Apr

9:09 a.m.

Sorry Fred, probably I had misunderstood the focus of the debate and I had omitted in my e-mail your decisive intervention that was for me the reason why I supported the removing made by Angela, not for the number of affected people. If I have well understood, the problem was the "blatant advertising for a company, product, group, service or person". Sorry I have wrongly situated ny supporting. Frederick Noronha wrote 4-20-2007

...

Numbers are important. But I don't think everything can be judged by numbers alone.

...

(Someone was asking on a journalism mailing list how 30+ US lives match up with 190+ in Iraq as far as the mainstream media goes! Then, if everything went by numbers alone, one-seventh of the Wikipedia's content should have focussed on India, and about one-sixth on China. But we know that doesn't happen! So, we seem to be facing the pinch both ways! When it comes to non-inclusion, and when it comes to deletion.)

...

These are issues that those building alternatives have to face up to. We seem to be failing in reflecting diversity at a global scale. Are we even trying? FN

...

On 20/04/07, Angela <beesley(a)gmail.com> wrote:

On 4/20/07, Frederick Noronha <fred(a)bytesforall.org> wrote: This page on a prominent alternate global media event is being called "blatant advertising for a company, product, group, service or person". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OURMedia/NUESTROSMedios

I removed content on this from [[Ourmedia]] a year ago since the group had only 279 members and probably didn't deserve an article. Angela

----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Noronha" <fred(a)bytesforall.org> To: <wikipedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 10:40 PM Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] More on page deletions... On what grounds? That smaller groups are necessarily non-notable? Or that only large groups can do positive work? FN On 24/04/07, Miguel Bravo-Ferrer <miguel.bravoferrer(a)abg-abogados.es> wrote:

...

Angela beesley wrote

I removed content on this from [[Ourmedia]] a year ago since the group had only 279 members and probably didn't deserve an article.

On 4/20/07, Frederick Noronha <fred(a)bytesforall.org> wrote:

This page on a prominent alternate global media event is being called "blatant advertising for a company, product, group, service or person".

_______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l

Andre Engels

20 Apr 20 Apr

11:55 a.m.

2007/4/20, Frederick Noronha <fred(a)bytesforall.org>rg>:

...

Really, why are the participants, themes etcetera of a conference things to put on Wikipedia? As far as I can see, 90% of the page would do better to be put on their own website. Speedy deletion seems rather crude indeed, but it still indeeds reeks of advertising. -- Andre Engels, andreengels(a)gmail.com ICQ: 6260644 -- Skype: a_engels

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participants (10)

Andre Engels
Angela
Berto 'd Sera
David Gerard
Frederick Noronha
J.L.W.S. The Special One
Marco Chiesa
Mark Williamson
Matthew Brown
Miguel Bravo-Ferrer