Scientists called to write for Ukrainian Wikipedia

Normally I wouldn't spam the list with the odd news snippet, but how often does a minister call work on Wikipedia "a task of national importance"? http://www.nrcu.gov.ua/index.php?id=148&listid=113390 _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l

Amir E. Aharoni

8:09 a.m.

On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 01:14, Magnus Manske <magnusmanske(a)googlemail.com>wrote;wrote:

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The language issue is very hot in Ukraine. Despite 20 years of political independence, [[Ukrainian language]] is still competing with Russian. The minister's proposal is good, but he shouldn't be so worried: I can read Ukrainian a little and i am constantly under the impression is that the Ukrainian Wikipedia is among the better ones. -- אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי Amir Elisha Aharoni http://aharoni.wordpress.com "We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace." - T. Moore

David Gerard

10:04 a.m.

On 11 March 2010 07:09, Amir E. Aharoni <amir.aharoni(a)mail.huji.ac.il> wrote:

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The language issue is very hot in Ukraine. Despite 20 years of political independence, [[Ukrainian language]] is still competing with Russian.

What pleases me about this proposal is that he's pushing it for the science articles. These should be relatively immune to nationalism (compared, say, to articles on historical topics), and would really help the production of good NPOV educational content in Ukrainian. Hence my wish that the call be repeated in other languages! - d.

Amir E. Aharoni

10:08 a.m.

On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:04, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

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On 11 March 2010 07:09, Amir E. Aharoni <amir.aharoni(a)mail.huji.ac.il> wrote:

The language issue is very hot in Ukraine. Despite 20 years of political independence, [[Ukrainian language]] is still competing with Russian.

I agree with you. I am just saying that other languages may have less motivation. -- אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי Amir Elisha Aharoni http://aharoni.wordpress.com "We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace." - T. Moore

J.L.W.S. The Special One

10:27 a.m.

The most important question: How can we support the Ukranian scientists who answer their government's call to contribute? 2010/3/11 Magnus Manske <magnusmanske(a)googlemail.com>

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-- Written with passion, J.L.W.S. The Special One

Yury Tarasievich

10:51 a.m.

On 03/11/2010 11:27 AM, J.L.W.S. The Special One wrote:

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The most important question: How can we support the Ukranian scientists who answer their government's call to contribute?

By sending them lots of money? On a more serious note, the WP model of production of "NPOV" (quotes intended) is flawed, and the scientific guys are understandably reluctant to participate in such process. --Yury

Ray Saintonge

11:24 a.m.

Yury Tarasievich wrote:

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On 03/11/2010 11:27 AM, J.L.W.S. The Special One wrote:

The most important question: How can we support the Ukranian scientists who answer their government's call to contribute?

Gee! That's like saying that scientists don't support scientific method. Ec

Amir E. Aharoni

11:47 a.m.

On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 12:24, Ray Saintonge <saintonge(a)telus.net> wrote:

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Yury Tarasievich wrote:

On 03/11/2010 11:27 AM, J.L.W.S. The Special One wrote:

The most important question: How can we support the Ukranian scientists who answer their government's call to contribute?

Gee! That's like saying that scientists don't support scientific method.

True. Yesterday i had a serious talk about Wikipedia with a university lecturer and he told me that he was very pleased with the English Wikipedia's way of assuring Verifiability and NPOV. -- אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי Amir Elisha Aharoni http://aharoni.wordpress.com "We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace." - T. Moore

Yury Tarasievich

12:32 p.m.

On 03/11/2010 12:24 PM, Ray Saintonge wrote:

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Yury Tarasievich wrote:

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On a more serious note, the WP model of production of "NPOV" (quotes intended) is flawed, and the scientific guys are understandably reluctant to participate in such process.

Gee! That's like saying that scientists don't support scientific method.

Be serious. Wikipedia's "method" isn't anything new with regard, e.g., to the verifiability. And "NPOV" is quite a different matter altogether. -Yury

J.L.W.S. The Special One

12:38 p.m.

Wikipedia has a reputation for anti-elitism. If we provide the scientists with the right support, that reputation might change. 2010/3/11 Yury Tarasievich <yury.tarasievich(a)gmail.com>

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On 03/11/2010 12:24 PM, Ray Saintonge wrote:

Yury Tarasievich wrote:

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On a more serious note, the WP model of production of "NPOV" (quotes intended) is flawed, and the scientific guys are understandably reluctant to participate in such process.

Gee! That's like saying that scientists don't support scientific method.

Be serious. Wikipedia's "method" isn't anything new with regard, e.g., to the verifiability. And "NPOV" is quite a different matter altogether. -Yury _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l

-- Written with passion, J.L.W.S. The Special One

Yury Tarasievich

1:02 p.m.

On 03/11/2010 01:38 PM, J.L.W.S. The Special One wrote:

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Wikipedia has a reputation for anti-elitism. If we provide the scientists with the right support, that reputation might change.

Obviously, though, it would then cease to be a Wikipedia and become something else. Citizendium, possibly. Or even something completely different. -Yury

Andre Engels

2:02 p.m.

On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Ray Saintonge <saintonge(a)telus.net> wrote:

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Yury Tarasievich wrote:

On 03/11/2010 11:27 AM, J.L.W.S. The Special One wrote:

The most important question: How can we support the Ukranian scientists who answer their government's call to contribute?

Gee! That's like saying that scientists don't support scientific method.

If "spending time with every dumbass who walks in until the two of you agree" is part of the scientific method, then indeed I don't think that many scientists will support it. -- André Engels, andreengels(a)gmail.com

Yury Tarasievich

8:44 p.m.

On 03/11/2010 03:02 PM, Andre Engels wrote:

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On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Ray Saintonge<saintonge(a)telus.net> wrote:

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Gee! That's like saying that scientists don't support scientific method.

If "spending time with every dumbass who walks in until the two of you agree" is part of the scientific method, then indeed I don't think that many scientists will support it.

And there's that aspect, too. -Yury

Jussi-Ville Heiskanen

12 Mar 12 Mar

6:14 a.m.

Andre Engels wrote:

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On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Ray Saintonge <saintonge(a)telus.net> wrote:

Yury Tarasievich wrote:

On 03/11/2010 11:27 AM, J.L.W.S. The Special One wrote:

The most important question: How can we support the Ukranian scientists who answer their government's call to contribute?

Gee! That's like saying that scientists don't support scientific method.

If "spending time with every dumbass who walks in until the two of you agree" is part of the scientific method, then indeed I don't think that many scientists will support it.

Indeed, a better analogy of NPOV within the history of science (rather than any of the various flavours of "Scientific Method") would be scholasticism. Except for the fact that the worst bit that historians of science have criticized about scholasticism -- the wild forays into synthetic thought -- is greatly ameliorated by wikipedias OR policy. However, the minute application of analytical thought to the most trivial points -- which scholasticism delighted in -- is alive and well on wikipedia ;-) Yours, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen

Everton Zanella Alvarenga

13 Mar 13 Mar

5:39 a.m.

Hi. I think a good way to estimulate scientists, or any other specialist, to contribute to Wikipedia, at least indirectly, is to produce content of his/her field with a license compatible with Wikipedia (CC-By, CC-By-SA, PD...). For example, some scientists are beginning to blog. Couldn't we use some of their texts for scientific divulgation be used as a good source of information for improving Wikipedia? I doubt scientists, in general, will have pacience and/or time to discuss with some people they can find during editions. Some can also think easier to write a blog or a web page, than editing a wiki text. Or can also feel more confortable. At least in Brazil, if someone in government said scientists should write on Wikipedia, I believe most would think "What for? What will I gain from this?", since their recognition comes, usualy, from articles published and this is what counts when you look for a job. Wikipedia would make them almost anonymous and maybe with online texts they would have some feeling of a direct recognition (people comments on weblog, for example)... By the way, I thought very nice someone from a government supporting the use of Wikipedia and spread the news here in Brasil. :-) []'s, Tom

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participants (10)

Amir E. Aharoni
Andre Engels
David Gerard
Everton Zanella Alvarenga
J.L.W.S. The Special One
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
Magnus Manske
Ray Saintonge
Samuel Klein
Yury Tarasievich