On Thu, Oct 24, 2002 at 12:53:43PM -0700, Daniel Mayer wrote: I am proud that we are a wiki, and I hope we remain one. Then he was under a misconception. He did not have to deal with them. -M-

Daniel Mayer wrote: And that's a shame... I think everyone gets 'battle fatigue' occasionally. I stepped back for 3 weeks because I was getting steamingly mad over the way we argue things round and round in circles to the detriment of doing the real work. Hopefully Andre will decide to return once he's recharged his batteries for awhile. The thing is, like it or not, the sysops ARE a defacto police force. It doesn't matter that we have the ability to make these changes because we asked for it. We care about the pedia enough to take action when necessary. And yes, I think that should include the temporary banning of people who repeatedly violate the code of conduct for the wikipedia. I agree with KQ about this - atm the code of conduct is unwritten, but when you sign up for virtually any other website you have to agree to follow one. We should do the same - when you create a login you need to agree to follow the basic rules - no name-calling, no vandalism, and no uploading of copyrighted materials. Being caught doing any of those things should be AUTOMATIC cause for unquestioned suspension for a period of time. No arguments and no questions asked. -- Karen AKA Kajikit To err is human... to really foul things up add kitten and stir. Come and visit my part of the web: Kajikit's Corner: http://Kajikit.netfirms.com/ Aussie Support Mailing List: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AussieSupport Allergyfree Eating Recipe Swap: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Allergyfree_Eating Ample Aussies Mailing List: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ampleaussies/

I fight to keep things open, not to tolerate anti-social behaviour, but to keep Wikipedia from becoming the online equivalent of a police state. I believe that soft security is the best way to run a wiki community, and that too much hard security will eventaully kill us. If we lock down Wikipedia too tighly, we'll lose *most* of our great contributors. Stephen G. --- Daniel Mayer <maveric149(a)yahoo.com> wrote: h __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

Just for good order: It wasn't just these miscreants, although it's a large part of it. I am also getting sick of the fights between ourselves, and of getting hateful remarks from some of you. Furthermore, I have to spend less time on the Internet anyway, as my work is suffering under it. I don't think I will be gone forever, but for the time being I'm going to do very little. Probably just a few new pages and major edits, those are what still gives me fun. Someone says that I do not have to deal with them. And that's true. But once I have created a page or made a major addition to it, I get a bit attached to it. And when they get changed, I want to look. Most of the time it's something inconsequential. Often it is an improvement, and I smile. But sometimes it gets worse, and that upsets me. And then I try to work on it. That's one way to get drawn in. Unfortunately, there are others as well. It's hard to say what, if anything, should have been done differently to keep me. Because it's certainly partly my own fault, being too thin-skinned, taking criticism too much personally, feeling personally insulted when there is really just a difference in opinion. Maybe my involvement in Wikipedia was just a case of having the right man at the wrong place - or a lot of wrong places even. Like mav, I am withdrawing, to WikipediaNL in my case. I'll probably be back in some weeks or some months, and see what you have done with the project in the meantime. I wish you luck. Andre Engels