Hi,
I think Node is making a few misleading points here,
most of all to do with this logo changing on the
Romanian Wikipedia.
I have been at the Romanian Wikipedia since 2003, and
I can say that there have been no conflicts so far
with other Wikipedias (except this Moldovan one,
perhaps) and that this logo-changing was not inspired
by a dislike for Russians. It was rather changed by a
desire to have a Romanian character on the logo of a
Romanian-language encyclopedia. There was never any
discussion of "we will particularly replace this
symbol just because it's Cyrllic". I don't think it's
right that Node use this to his advantage just because
of what is in reality a coincidence.
As to automatic conversion, as Node said - it would
cause a great deal of controversy, both in Romania and
Moldova. In Moldova, it is seen as a symbol of Russian
repression - perhaps Node doesn't see it as much
because he hasn't lived through those times (neither
have I - I'm not Moldovan), but a lot of Moldovans
have said that so far. The controversy becomes
increasingly significant when we're talking about a
script that is no longer official (except for in the
breakaway Transnistria, which is a dictatorship that
still follows the Soviet ideals) and is in decline (in
the sense that - all young Moldovans learn Latin
only).
Overall, though, I'm not against the Wikipedia. It is
officially biscriptal at the moment, in terms of
interface, even though Latin content can't go there -
instead, it is placed on the Romanian Wikipedia.
But it would be good to hear what international users
think of this Wikipedia. Would it be correct to delete
it? Or perhaps move the Cyrillic version to a more
specific subdomain, rather than letting the mo:
subdomain host only Cyrillic content?
Thanks,
Ronline
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
Hi all,
We had a rather large discussion today on privacy and its application on
Wikipedia (specifically anonymous editing and the checkuser tool which
is the subject of much debate at the moment).
I am curious to whether the Wikimedia Foundation's privacy policy is
compatible with EU legislation on privacy (which is tightly regulated),
and whether it is obliged to be, as the Foundation hosts servers in the
European Union (which are presumably subject to EU law).
I would also like to propose that any person with access to server logs
(which include IP addresses), including people with access to the
checkuser tool, should sign a legal agreement of some sort with the
Wikimedia Foundation concerning non-disclosure of this information.
I am unsure whether or not an IP address qualifies as "personal
information" under EU law and I have contacted the UK Information
Commissioner's Office asking them for their opinion.
Thoughts on the legal agreement proposal, and answers to the question of
legal obligations are much appreciated.
Chris
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: shi zhao <shizhao(a)gmail.com>
Date: Oct 21, 2005 10:20 PM
Subject: [Wikizh-l] Re: Wikipedia banned in China, news from Taiwan
(translated)
To: Zheng Xiaoyun <zhengxiaoyun(a)gmail.com>
Cc: wikizh-l(a)wikipedia.org
wikipedia�϶�����һЩ���ڴ�½��˵��Щ���е����η���۵㡣�������Ļ�����ʵ���й���������������ֻ����ࡣ
Ŀǰ���Ѿ��ݽ���������IJ��ϣ���������Ļ���1����֮��Ӧ�û���������
���ڷ���wikipedia���ȽϿ�ķ�������ʹ��wikimedia��ŷ�ķ�������Ϊ������
145.97.39.132:80 <http://145.97.39.132:80>
�� 05-10-21��Zheng Xiaoyun<zhengxiaoyun(a)gmail.com> ���
> ������ǹ��Ұ�ȫ�������������ǻ���ʲô���ݵ����أ�����ܲ�ȡʲô�Բ��أ�
>
> Zheng
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Cathy Ma <cathyma(a)gmail.com>
> Date: Oct 21, 2005 6:24 PM
> Subject: Wikipedia banned in China, news from Taiwan (translated)
> To: Andrew Lih <alih(a)hku.hk>, Ying Chan <yychan(a)hku.hk>, Lokman Tsui
> <lokman.tsui(a)gmail.com>, Andrea Leung <andrea.leung(a)gmail.com>,
> "isaac.mao" <isaac.mao(a)gmail.com>, zhengxiaoyun(a)gmail.com, Kenneth
> Farrall <kfarrall(a)asc.upenn.edu>, Titan Deng <theodoranian(a)gmail.com>
>
>
> Thanks Titan for the source:
>
> ���ľS�� �����ꑷ��i
>
> ��ӛ��ꐂZ�ΨM̨����
>
> ȫ������Y�ϵľ��ϰٿ�ȫ���S���ٿƣ�wiki pedia�����İ�پW��19�������ٶ����ꑟo�A�����i
> ���W��һƬ�e㵡�
>
> Wikipedia was banned without forewarnning on the 19th and shocked
> internet users.
>
> ���˽⣬�@�η⚢�����й����Ұ�ȫ��λ���ԭ�������ɰ��W�ѓ���ԓվһ�������÷��i�����ɞ顸����֪�R�۷e�������Σ�C��
>
> No conclusive rationals were drawn for this move, but it was believed
> to be an order issued by the National Security Unit of the government.
> Users from both Mainland and China worried that if this website is
> banned for good, it would be the biggest crisis for 'Chinese knowledge
> accumulation'.
>
>
�W��ԭ�Ԟ��@�Ρ��⚢��ֻ�Ǿֲ������^�ɰ����ؾW�Ѵ�̽�؈�֪�ı���ʮ���������𣬰����������ؑc���V�|���Ϻ������K�ȵ���m�o���������ľS���ٿƣ�������ꑎ���ȫ����i��
>
> Internet users originally thought that this was only a partial
> suspension, however after investigations by various users, it was
> found that most provinces in China could no longer access to Wikipedia
> since the 19th.
>
>
���c��ꑾS���_�����lĿ�ľW�ѣ�ԭ�Ԟ�����������Ϣ���W·����ġ�������������W·�����̣�ISP�����C����֪���LJ��Ұ�ȫ��λ������ִ�ꑾW���ԡ��|�S�\���l������ԓ��λ��
>
> Mainland users thought that it was again the 'masterpiece/great work'
> by the Central information Networt (CERNET?), however further
> verification with the ISP revealed that it was the National security
> unit who made the order. Some mainland users described the unit as
> 'Secret agency from the "eastern unit" (note: used to be the unit in
> imperial China Great Palace of which only castrated men worked there'
>
>
�@���Ǵ�ꑹٷ�ȥ����������ȷ��i���ľS���ٿƣ�ȥ������찲�T�¼���ʮ������o��ǰϦ���й���Ϣ���ȟo�A�����iԓվ���L�_���ܡ������ľS����ȫ����Ո�£��ԡ������_�������Ї��˅��c�������Lƫ��̨�����f�����S��ԓ�ٿ��ϡ���ƽ��ɰ��������ɣ��@�ٶ��_�š�
>
> This was the third time Wikipedia got banned in China. Last year it
> was right before the 15th aniversary of the June fourth incident when
> the CERNET banned the site without any forewarning. It lasted for 3
> weeks, not until the appeal 'If you do not open this website,
> information on this encyclopedia would gravitate more toward
> pro-Taiwan stance' by the Wikipedian crew that site got reopen again.
>
>
ȥ����£��������BBSվ����һ̤���T��վ���W���ھ��ϙzӑ���\�c�ĸ��ƶȣ��ȫ���վ������BBS�����Pվ�⣻֮��ԭ�ڡ�һ̤���T����Ԓ�ČW�����Z�����ľS���Wվ�c����BBS������S��չ�_�W·���飬���ľS�����ȱ����i���졣
>
> Last September the bigger BBS in China SMTH was banned when students
> discussed about social movements and reform. After that these
> students migrated to Wikipedia and BBS to continue their discussion
> and caused Chinese Wikipedia suspended for 3 days.
>
> ��2005/10/21 �ψ� '
>
> --
> MPhil Candidate,
> Department of Sociology,
> The University of Hong Kong
> http://cathyma.net
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------
> // Zheng XiaoYun
> + http://www.cnblog.org
> + http://www.klogs.org
> // 0598-8654540
>
_______________________________________________
Wikizh-l mailing list
Wikizh-l(a)Wikipedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikizh-l
Hi,
Yes - I've been looking forward most to the Samogitian
one, since I'm interested in the language and culture
of the Baltic states and Samogitian is an important
part of that heritage. Isn't the standard form just to
use the ISO code for the language family and then the
SIL code? For the Aromanian Wikipedia we used that, in
the form: roa-rup, where "roa" = ISO Romance languages
other and "rup" - SIL code for Aromanian. The same was
done for Voro - fiu-vro. But I think Samogitian
doesn't have a SIL code either...
On another note, a big congratulations to the four
Wikipedias set up. A special one for Venetian and
Lombard - it's great to have Wikipedias in as many
Romance languages as possible, especially the
less-well-known ones. I'd really like to contribute to
these two, since the language is similar to Romanian.
Ronline
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
Hi,
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl redirects to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl. It shouldn't. Should it provide
a list off all Wikipedia's with an article [[Chernobyl]]?
Gerrit.
--
Temperature in Luleå, Norrbotten, Sweden:
| Current temperature 05-10-21 20:49:54 1.4 degrees Celsius ( 34.5F) |
--
Det finns inte dåligt väder, bara dåliga kläder.
>> >Some might say this is comparable to Cantonese, however I disagree, as
>> >YYBHW is used much more often than written Strine.
>> Someone who would say that would be smoking crack big time.
>So are all of the "oppose" voters, and in fact most
>non-Mandarin-speaking Chinese, and most people who speak no variety of
>Chinese but think they know something about it, smoking crack big
>time?
>I guess that makes sense -- after all, Cantonese religion forbids
>crack, and those few Cantonese speakers who expressed opposition have
>obviously gone astray.
Unless you're saying that every one of them explicity compared
Cantonese to written 'Strine (there are no books, newspapers, message
boards or movie subtitles in 'Strine for reasons other than
Australians making fun of themselves), then please don't put words
into my mouth.
- d.
Hi,
Re: the Russian logo character change:
As far as I remember (and this was a long way back so
I'm not sure), it *was* a collective decision, but one
that was passed very quickly and wasn't at all
politically-motivated. It occured along with the
changeover to MonoBook, at a time when the Romanian
Wikipedia was growing very fast, and I don't think
anyone thought twice about "doing it to make a
statement against Russia".
"Again, somebody's painting it as if all Moldovans
hate this WP."
No, not at all. What Oleg and I are saying (I think
that's what Oleg is saying) is that the Cyrillic
script in Moldova is seen as a relic of the Communist
past. That doesn't mean people don't support.
Personally, I disliked the Soviet Union a lot for what
it did to Eastern Europe, and think writing
Romanian/Moldovan in Cyrillic is nonsense, but I
supported the Moldovan Cyrillic Wikipedia, if only
because I felt there were people (including you) who
were genuinely committed to it and wanted to support
it. Just like I supported the Voro Wikipedia, I
supported this one (well, Voro is a Wikipedia I really
like).
Anyway - so that final point is whether the Wikipedia
should:
*stay as it is
*move to a subdomain
*be deleted outright
Please, what does everyone think? We need more input!
By the way - did you know about our Vlax Romany
Wikipedia proposal at Meta:Requests for new languages?
We've got two native speakers - one still being
confirmed - who are willing to help. Hopefully we can
have a Vlax Romany Wikipedia by the end of the year.
Ronline
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
Mark Willaimson wrote:
>I'm not 100% sure about that.
I'm 0% sure about it ;-)
>For a separate Wikipedia in Strine/Straiyan/..., it would need to be
>developed more as a literary language and/or made an official language
>of even a single municipality, or for more people to use it.
>By this, I mean in the strictly written sense.
No Australian uses *written* Strine ([[:en:Australian
English#Broad_Australian_English]]) in any context other than taking
the piss out of themselves. I invented the orthography in the
Uncyclopedia article as I went along.
>Some might say this is comparable to Cantonese, however I disagree, as
>YYBHW is used much more often than written Strine.
Someone who would say that would be smoking crack big time.
- d.
Milos Rancic wrote:
>On 10/21/05, Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com> wrote:
>> What I support is not a "hoax", but rather the right to determine
>> one's own sociolinguistic and sociocultural identity.
>Mark, at least two linguists (User:Angr is another) said twice that
>story about Zlatiborian is a hoax.
I want a Wikipoidia in broad 'Straiyan, mate. Yew gonna tell me broad
'Straiyan's a hoax, mate? Strewth!
- d.
References:
1. http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Australian-English_Dictionary