The email conversations regarding the issue of "Copyright and Wikimedia
Servers" happening in Wikimedia India list.
Regards,
Balasankar C
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Yann Forget <yannfo(a)gmail.com>
Date: 2013/5/12
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimedia Servers and Copyright Issues
To: Wikimedia India Community list <wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
AFAIK, it would only be an external link.
Yann
2013/5/12 Achal Prabhala <aprabhala(a)gmail.com>om>:
I like Wikilivres, was just wondering - has anyone
tried to create a
placeholder for an image/ text on commons or Wikisource with an external
link to the file on Wikilivres (when said image or file is public domain
outside the US but not within) - I guess the question is how to connect
public domain work that cannot be hosted on US servers to Wikimedia, which
is.
On Sunday 12 May 2013 03:01 PM, Yann Forget wrote:
>
> There is already in Canada a server available for hosting content
> which cannot be hosted on Wikimedia servers. I think this solution
> should gather more support.
>
http://wikilivres.ca/ (previously wikilivres.info).
>
> Regards,
>
> Yann
>
> 2013/5/12 Achal Prabhala <aprabhala(a)gmail.com>om>:
>>
>> Hi Balasankar,
>>
>> The question you raise is a very important one. The solution, however,
is
>> not likely to be to host content in India (I
don't speak for the
>> Wikimedia
>> Foundation, but there are sound legal reasons why all Wikimedia content
>> is
>> hosted in the US; mostly liability risk and freedom of expression and
>> this
>> is unlikely to change).
>>
>> The default across Commons and Wikisource, the two projects that host
the
>> bulk of public domain content (images, videos,
sounds, books) in
>> Wikimedia,
>> is the US copyright term - it's the only yardstick that matters for what
>> qualifies as public domain by virtue of being out of copyright. You are
>> absolutely right, however, in that there's a big difference btw US
>> copyright
>> terms and those of other countries, for instance:
>>
>> For photographs, while the binding limit (Berne/TRIPs) is 25 years from
>> the
>> making of the work, India is life of photographer + 60 years after
death,
>> and in the US it is life + 70.
>>
>> For literary works, the binding limit (Berne/ TRIPs) is life + 50 years,
>> whereas in India it is life + 60, whereas in the US it is life + 70 or
>> 120/95 if made on work for hire.
>>
>> (The binding limit is the WTO mandated term that country members - US
and
>> India and 150 others - have to follow. As you
can see, typically, most
>> countries exceed the limit for reasons of their own, which they are
>> allowed
>> to do, with the US exceeding in far greater amount than India.)
>>
>> In short, there can be a difference of between 10 and 40 years between
>> the
>> time a work goes into the public domain in a country with shorter terms
>> than
>> the US (any number of countries in the non-Anglo-European world) and the
>> US.
>> This seriously affects even 'Indian' works (where India is the first
>> country
>> of publication) because of the copyright protection granted to such
works
>> in
>> the US, thus effectively placing them under copyright for our purposes
>> within Wikimedia long after they've gone in to the public domain in
their
>> source country.
>>
>> The case to consider here is Golan:
>>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golan_v._Holder
>>
>> A summary of the US Supreme Court decision in this case is - US law
>> trumps
>> international agreements, so the US copyright term holds within US
>> territory, and restores copyright protection to any works that have gone
>> into the public domain by virtue of a shorter copyright term in another
>> country. Because Wikimedia servers are based in the US, Golan applies to
>> us.
>>
>> But your question is an extremely pertinent one, and if we were to find
>> unusual solutions to it, they would seem to lie in:
>>
>> 1) Whether hosting on US servers for a global audience makes any
>> difference,
>> since we do not serve readers only bound by US law (Wikimedia reader
>> numbers
>> bear this out, ie US readership = minority percentage of whole) and
>> whether
>> we specifically have anything special on the basis of which to mount
some
>> kind of strategic litigation on the issue of
allowing us to exploit the
>> shortest possible route to public domain anywhere in the world for all
or
>> some of our readers.
>>
>> 2) Whether hosting on US servers but using publicly audited geolocation
>> to
>> switch off for readers from IP addresses where the material in question
>> is
>> still under copyright is a legally and operationally feasible workaround
>> (connected to whether Wikimedia Tech thinks this is both doable and
worth
>> our while to do)
>>
>> 3) Whether, if all fails and there is no getting around this in any way,
>> Commons and Wikisource (if there is sufficient interest in those
>> communities) should be interested in looking at a way of allowing
>> external
>> links to chapter-managed local sites from the US-served base to see the
>> material in question; and if this is something, say, the India chapter
>> wants
>> and is willing to do, whether this route poses any legal risks.
>>
>> In any case, I passed around your question to a few friends for comments
>> and
>> suggestions - as well as to Geoff Brigham at the Wikimedia Foundation,
>> who
>> is not too hopeful for a solution but is very receptive to looking into
>> it
>> and getting back to us - and I'll tell you when I know something.
>>
>> Meanwhile, if you have other ways of looking into creative solutions
>> around
>> this problem (not at all easy to crack, but the benefits are
significant)
>> -
>> or if anyone else on this list does - you should.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Achal
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday 10 May 2013 10:20 PM, Balasankar Chelamattath wrote:
>>
>> Hi Srikanth,
>> I didnt quite understand what you meant by example.
>> An example for a work which is in public domain in India and not in US -
>> Works by Changampuzha Krishnapillai (
>>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Changampuzha_Krishna_Pillai ).
>> He passed away in 1948, and hence it is 65 years after the author's
>> death.
>> So the books are copyright-free in India as of now (in pubic domain).
>> But they
>>
>> were not published before 1923
>> were not in the public domain in India as of 1 January 1996 ( because
>> criteria of "60 years after author's death" not satisfied on 1996)
>>
>> Hence they are not in public domain according to US Laws. So we cannot
>> store
>> them in US servers.
>>
>> The main problem is India considers copyright based on date of author's
>> death and US does it based on date of publication.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Balasankar C
>>
>>
>>
>> 2013/5/10 Srikanth Ramakrishnan <srik.ramk(a)wikimedia.in>
>>>
>>> Hi Balasankar,
>>> Can you point out specific instances and show when and where the book
or
>>> publication was first published? If the
works are still copyrighted in
>>> India, then they should be copyrighted in the US as well, generally
>>> speaking. The term India awards to creators is lesser than the one
>>> provided
>>> in the US under copyright laws.
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 10:31 PM, Balasankar Chelamattath
>>> <c.balasankar(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> As most of you know, the Indian copyright law says that a book gets
>>>> relieved of copyright after 60 years from the author's death. But
this
>>>> is
>>>> not the case with US Law. As given here , of all the works published
>>>> outside
>>>> US, only those published before 1923 are directly in the public
domain.
>>>> The
>>>> ones published between 1923 and 1977 without compliance to the US
>>>> formalities will be in the public domain only if they are in the
public
>>>> domain in their source country as of 1
January 1996. Almost all the
>>>> other
>>>> categories of published works will not be in the public domain until
95
>>>> years after publishing.
>>>>
>>>> This induces a confusion and when looked in a legal perspective, most
>>>> of
>>>> the books in Indian Wikisources, are still not in public domain and
>>>> hence
>>>> must be removed. This makes a huge negative impact on the hard work
>>>> done by
>>>> contributors. Their contributions are wasted which may cause them to
>>>> stop
>>>> contributing. In short, this may be a negative impact on Wikimedia's
>>>> image
>>>> in the society.
>>>>
>>>> The only solution to this problem is to host the servers of Indian
>>>> Wikimedia services in India, so that the data we upload is stored
under
> Indian
Laws. Can Wikimedia India Chapter do anything on this? We can
> plan
> and conduct a fundraiser in India to raise money for the hosting
> expenses.
>
> Please consider this issue with maximum priority as it involves legal
> procedures and related headaches.
>
> Regards,
> Balasankar C
>
https://ml.wikisource.org/wiki/User:Balasankarc
> Regards,
> Balasankar C
>
>
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--
Srikanth Ramakrishnan
Treasurer,
Wikimedia Chapter [India]
Donate to the Wikimedia India Chapter today
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