I agree with the others that you are raising a really important point, Anass. Thanks for that. I have tried to support visa applicants to two international Wikimedia events in Stockholm, the Wikimedia Diversity Conference in 2017 and Wikimania in 2019. It was frustrating even for me as organizer, and I can't even imagine how frustrating and disheartening it must be for the visa applicants. After these two occasions, I have made a few simple conclusions. - If it is of high priority that visa applications are accepted, more funding for supporting the applications than one might think is needed. It is time consuming to support visa applications, but it does make a difference. - One reason why there needs to be plenty of funding for supporting the applications is that the embassies, at least the Swedish ones, work independently of each other. We tried to develop one process and timeline, but it failed because of all the embassies' own procedures and timelines. It is close to impossible to develop one structure or process, but support needs to be given to each applicant in their own process. If that is done, it does however increase the likelihood that the visa is approved. - For Wikimania, we were even more actively engaged in the visa processes as compared to the Diversity Conference – as we seemed to notice that it made a difference. We reached out to the embassies informing them about the upcoming conference, we were in close communication with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, that organized a reception during Wikimania for WikiGap organizers, and even successfully appealed a rejection. All this took a lot of time, and not all applications were successful. But a higher proportion was successful as compared to the Diversity Conference. - We are not sure, but WikiGap *seems* to have made a difference in many embassies. That is, the Swedish embassy in a given country has after the WikiGap events a relationship to the Wikimedia movement, and might even know about the applicants, which in many cases *seems* to have led to more approvals. I am not sure if that is possible to repeat in more instances, but for us it shows at least that building relations might help. I don't think, however, that we will ever reach 100% approvals. I thus also wholeheartedly agree with the previous message that we need to explore successful person / remote integration. I also want to acknowledge the fact that I write this as a previous organizer. As the situation is of course much harder for all applicants, for me it is not about complaining, but trying to rase a few points that can perhaps increase the probability of approvals in more cases. Best, *Eric Luth* Projektledare engagemang och påverkan | Project Manager, Involvement and Advocacy Wikimedia Sverige eric.luth(a)wikimedia.se +46 (0) 765 55 50 95 Stöd fri kunskap, bli medlem i Wikimedia Sverige. Läs mer på blimedlem.wikimedia.se Den tis 16 aug. 2022 kl 14:51 skrev <eheidel(a)wikimedistas.uy>uy>:

Agree with Bodhi here, contact WMDE they have been doing this conference for many years and should have the networks to help get your application for a visa processed. On Tue, 16 Aug 2022 at 22:20, Bodhisattwa <bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com> wrote: -- GN.

Hello, There is always a country that is accessible for some and difficult for others, yet I experienced the same situation this year, and I was pushed to make difficult decisions to cancel with continuous stress. I add that some visas are issued with only one entry and a duration of only one week, if someone plans to return to the same country or the same space, he has to re-submit another one. and it is also another story and another galley, which brings up all the fears and doubts every time Even though the WM summit team has done a very good job and with new improvements year after year. It is also difficult year after year to get a Schengen visa. I understand the problem between the budget allocated to transport and accommodation in each country for any conference but only this constraint, we lose more than we want to gain. It is time to establish a list // a guide // a recommendation of a place where the balance between all the constraints are realized. Technology + Budget + Free movement + Security etc. Best Mohammed B <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Bachounda>achounda Le mar. 16 août 2022 à 15:56, Iolanda Pensa &lt;iolanda(a)pensa.it&gt; a écrit :

Anass raises a critical point. As a community, we are broadly diverse and inclusive; however, that does not eliminate either intentional or unintentional biases that are external to our own organization. This was an issue *before* 2020, and some methods had been found to mitigate the impact of policies of various governments (e.g., invitation letters, appointed individuals to liaise directly with local immigration departments, etc.) I believe that the pandemic has significantly worsened the biases of immigration policies in many countries. For example, many countries require expensive testing and vaccination proof, and limit what vaccines are acceptable, even if those vaccines or testing facilities are not available in all areas of the world. More countries are requiring in-person interviews at embassies and consulates before issuing visas, despite the fact that many of the same countries have reduced staffing at those offices. The bias is particularly obvious for those who live in Africa and most of Asia. There are a few things that can be done structurally within our own organizations. - Finalize dates for conferences/meetings as early as possible, and a minimum of 4 months in advance, and then ensure that the dates/locations/times/purpose of the conference/meeting is published on a Wikimedia-related site. This gives invitees a link to prove that the conference is, in fact, taking place. - Ensure that registration is opened very early (minimum 3 months in advance) and include a tick box asking if the registrant needs an invitation letter. Automatically send that invitation letter the day that the registration is accepted. - We know that certain meetings are going to happen on an annual basis (e.g., Wikimedia Summit, CEE conference,etc.) Local organizations can decide even in advance of the meeting date being announced whether they will want to send someone, and select that individual so they can start the visa acquisition process as soon as possible. - It's not possible for the groups/departments organizing travel to keep current on *all* of the issues for every locality; first off, they have been changing so frequently, even immigration professionals have a hard time tracking it, and secondly there are often very localized issues such as unexpected and poorly publicized closures of consulates, etc. If someone is interested in attending an international event, they have some responsibility to be aware of local circumstances. - It would be very helpful if conference organizers arrange for a "point person" to liaise with the appropriate local authorities to facilitate visa applications. Those are just off the top of my head. Risker/Anne On Tue, 16 Aug 2022 at 12:36, Željko Blaće &lt;zblace(a)mi2.hr&gt; wrote:

Hi, Rather than worrying about visa problems, why not use the experiences we've learnt over the last few years with virtual meetings? Make sure that the meeting is fully hybrid - with remote attendees being able to participate equally with those in person? Wouldn't that be a fairer approach to make sure that all who need to attend can do so? Thanks, Mike On 16/8/22 16:27:11, ZhaoFJx wrote: > Visa policies are not only time-consuming and labor-intensive, but also > confusing. Not only that, but some people may also be stopped at > customs. Diplomatic relations between some countries have deteriorated, > and visas may be refused outright. COVID-19 may also be an important > factor affecting visas. > > I hope WMF will come forward to address these issues soon. But I don't > know if WMF has this power as a Nonprofit Organization... It would be > nice if someone could explain. > > > Sincerely > Jx > > Iolanda Pensa &lt;iolanda(a)pensa.it <mailto:iolanda@pensa.it>> 于2022年8月16 > 日周二 10:56写道： > > Maybe those documents can be relevant for the discussion: > > The learning pattern by Wikimedia Deutschland about the visa process > written in 2017 - > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Learning_patterns/Timing,_Communication,_Pr… > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Learning_patterns/Timing,_Communication,_Preparation:_How_to_support_your_event_participants_in_the_best_way_to_get_a_Schengen_Visa> > > The request to allow 3 months for visa made in 2014 - > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Learning_patterns/International_events%3F_A… > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Learning_patterns/International_events?_Allow_three_months_for_visa_formalities> > > > Best regards > Iolanda > > >> Il giorno 16 ago 2022, alle ore 16:40, Gnangarra >> &lt;gnangarra(a)gmail.com <mailto:gnangarra@gmail.com>> ha scritto: >> >> Agree with Bodhi here, contact WMDE they have been doing this >> conference for many years and should have the networks to help get >> your application for a visa processed. >> >> On Tue, 16 Aug 2022 at 22:20, Bodhisattwa >> &lt;bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com <mailto:bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com>> >> wrote: >> >> Hi Anass, >> >> Regarding the particular incident with Wikimedia Summit, I >> would suggest your representative to communicate with the >> conference organizing team directly about not getting any date >> of appointment before the conference and they will contact >> with respective embassies and consulates. Like the >> representative from your affiliate, I know of few others who >> did not get their visa appointments, so when they contacted >> the organizing team, they were given the support and >> respective embassies and consulates contacted them and gave >> them appointment for submitting visa documents. I know this, >> because I was one such candidate. >> >> Regards, >> Bodhisattwa >> >> On Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 19:09 Eric Luth &lt;eric.luth(a)wikimedia.se >> <mailto:eric.luth@wikimedia.se>> wrote: >> >> I agree with the others that you are raising a really >> important point, Anass. Thanks for that. >> >> I have tried to support visa applicants to two >> international Wikimedia events in Stockholm, the Wikimedia >> Diversity Conference in 2017 and Wikimania in 2019. It was >> frustrating even for me as organizer, and I can't even >> imagine how frustrating and disheartening it must be for >> the visa applicants. >> >> After these two occasions, I have made a few simple >> conclusions. >> >> * If it is of high priority that visa applications are >> accepted, more funding for supporting the applications >> than one might think is needed. It is time consuming >> to support visa applications, but it does make a >> difference. >> * One reason why there needs to be plenty of funding for >> supporting the applications is that the embassies, at >> least the Swedish ones, work independently of each >> other. We tried to develop one process and timeline, >> but it failed because of all the embassies' own >> procedures and timelines. It is close to impossible to >> develop one structure or process, but support needs to >> be given to each applicant in their own process. If >> that is done, it does however increase the likelihood >> that the visa is approved. >> * For Wikimania, we were even more actively engaged in >> the visa processes as compared to the Diversity >> Conference – as we seemed to notice that it made a >> difference. We reached out to the embassies informing >> them about the upcoming conference, we were in close >> communication with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, >> that organized a reception during Wikimania for >> WikiGap organizers, and even successfully appealed a >> rejection. All this took a lot of time, and not all >> applications were successful. But a higher proportion >> was successful as compared to the Diversity Conference. >> * We are not sure, but WikiGap /seems/ to have made a >> difference in many embassies. That is, the Swedish >> embassy in a given country has after the WikiGap >> events a relationship to the Wikimedia movement, and >> might even know about the applicants, which in many >> cases /seems/ to have led to more approvals. I am not >> sure if that is possible to repeat in more instances, >> but for us it shows at least that building relations >> might help. >> >> I don't think, however, that we will ever reach 100% >> approvals. I thus also wholeheartedly agree with the >> previous message that we need to explore successful person >> / remote integration. >> >> I also want to acknowledge the fact that I write this as a >> previous organizer. As the situation is of course much >> harder for all applicants, for me it is not about >> complaining, but trying to rase a few points that can >> perhaps increase the probability of approvals in more cases. >> >> Best, >> *Eric Luth* >> Projektledare engagemang och påverkan | Project Manager, >> Involvement and Advocacy >> Wikimedia Sverige >> eric.luth(a)wikimedia.se <mailto:eric.luth@wikimedia.se> >> +46 (0) 765 55 50 95 >> >> Stöd fri kunskap, bli medlem i Wikimedia Sverige. >> Läs mer på blimedlem.wikimedia.se >> <http://blimedlem.wikimedia.se/> >> >> >> >> Den tis 16 aug. 2022 kl 14:51 skrev >> &lt;eheidel(a)wikimedistas.uy <mailto:eheidel@wikimedistas.uy>>: >> >> Thanks Anass for bringing this up! It's a very >> frustrating situation for community members to deal >> with visas. It's also worth noting that in certain >> cases there are places that request a visa from >> certain countries, but do not have an Embassy in the >> country they are requesting the visa from -- meaning >> that a community member has to travel to another >> destination (sometimes significantly far away!) in >> order to get paper processed. That takes money and time. >> >> To me, the big elephant in the room is the need to >> re-imagine how we can do better integration of in >> person / remote events. The challenge here is that in >> the upcoming future it won't make sense from a carbon >> budget & climate perspective to fly people around the >> world, and we need to start designing more real >> decentralized events, not only to expect that we'll be >> able to plug a video screen somewhere and have >> in-person meetings while people watch from the outside >> (which doesn't lead to real participation / interaction). >> >> Also, flights have gone up significantly -- plane >> tickets are double the amount that they were before >> the pandemic; this also will represent a challenge for >> conference organizers, because they will be able to >> fly even less people with the money allocated for the >> event. And also worth noting that from anyone outside >> of the US / Europe, flying to Europe takes *a lot of >> time*. How we are asking community members and >> volunteers to use their time it's a big part of the >> conversation about equity. >> >> Sorry to hear that the visa issue has prevented a >> community member to bring their perspective fully into >> the table. >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- >> wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> <mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>, guidelines >> at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines> >> and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l> >> Public archives at >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org… >> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/X2ZGHJMQ4HZ3LEJTQFZHVDJYX2YO6A7D/> >> To unsubscribe send an email to >> wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- >> wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> <mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines> >> and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l> >> Public archives at >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org… >> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/4DX2ESW4MBLHFOYPNXGDCATNVLRM4LC7/> >> To unsubscribe send an email to >> wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> <mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines> and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l> >> Public archives at >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org… >> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/T5CKLAQM7TMT2ULR2MSM5SKA5EJGV5F3/> >> To unsubscribe send an email to >> wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org> >> >> >> >> -- >> GN. >> // >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> <mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines> and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l> >> Public archives at >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org… >> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/FMUYHGRXHYVUAOIVFFQQXAX6NXHJ64DZ/> >> To unsubscribe send an email to >> wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > <mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines> and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l> > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org… > <https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/K5KVT43NUHDFLOGL3X46LOMGK7DBCMNN/> > To unsubscribe send an email to > wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org > <mailto:wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org… > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org

Hi Risker, I broadly agree - there are a lot of benefits from in-person meetings, mostly from spontaneous meetings, but not so much for the actual program! Different people also work in very different ways. With your second point, internet connectivity problems, interface challenges, and finding it difficult to socalize --- but in person --- are also relevant for some (including myself ;-) ). Perhaps the reverse approach would be better then? Really focus on those who have never had the opportunities, to solve their problems, and mix with others at the conference - and for most regular attendees, get them to attend online and not take up so much of the meeting resources? "it is critical that we don't consider the presence of those who face greater challenges in attending in-person as non-essential." - I completely agree with this, but on the flip side, don't consider it essential that you have to attend in-person to participate equally. Particularly if you can't attend in-person for any reason (family commitments, travel restrictions, funding, medical issues, etc...). Thanks, Mike On 16/8/22 19:41:31, Risker wrote: > I see where you are coming from, Mike.  At the same time, there is > something fundamentally different about an in-person event. From my own > experience, some of the most valuable learnings I have taken from > in-person events have been completely unplanned; in particular, > developing personal relationships with people from other parts of the > world or from other projects. We should be doing our best to ensure that > people from all over the world have the opportunity to have these > experiences, as they have been fundamental to our growth as a movement. > A lunchtime walk, a random encounter at breakfast, or a casual > introduction has often turned into an action plan to collaborate.  These > things don't really happen during online meetings and conferences. > > There are also plenty of issues with online meetings, too.  Connectivity > problems, software challenges, and the fact that it's much more > difficult to socialize online are just the beginning. > > Hybrid, yes.  But it is critical that we don't consider the presence of > those who face greater challenges in attending in-person as > non-essential. Their ability to participate in the same way as someone > from a country with easy access is, in some ways, even more important. > > Risker/Anne > > On Tue, 16 Aug 2022 at 13:51, Mike Peel &lt;email(a)mikepeel.net > <mailto:email@mikepeel.net>> wrote: > > Hi, > > Rather than worrying about visa problems, why not use the experiences > we've learnt over the last few years with virtual meetings? Make sure > that the meeting is fully hybrid - with remote attendees being able to > participate equally with those in person? Wouldn't that be a fairer > approach to make sure that all who need to attend can do so? > > Thanks, > Mike > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org… > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org

Dear Anass, Thank you for raising this important issue. Your email highlights structural barriers and global injustices that affect our communities and challenge the values of equity and inclusion that Wikimedia Deutschland strives for. Whilst some of the underlying reasons for visa rejections are beyond our power, the Summit organizing team is relentlessly working in the constraints given upon us to create an event as inclusive as possible. The ongoing and dynamic development of Covid regulations made it impossible for us to plan this year’s Summit with the desired lead time. Despite these circumstances, we were eager to finally make it possible for the organizational part of our movement to come together again, which is why we decided to hold the Summit on-site with a hybrid setting. During the past months of preparing the Summit, we have been met with bureaucratic hurdles regarding visa support for our participants. Many participants have contacted us, stating their issues and concerns with the availability of appointments at the embassies. We have supported them by providing additional supporting documents and contacting the Federal Foreign Office and respective embassies. While this was successful in some cases, unfortunately it did not work for all of the affected participants. It has also come to our attention that the booking system for visa appointments has been changed and fully digitized as of this year, which has further complicated the process for everyone and made it even harder for us to interfere We will continue to examine possible ways to support future visa processes and share our learnings with the Movement in the event report. Kind regards, Nicole On Tue, 16 Aug 2022 at 22:55, Bobby Shabangu &lt;bobbyshabangu(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: -- Nicole Ebber Director Movement Strategy and Global Relations Wikimedia Deutschland e. V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin Phone: +49 30 577 11 62-0 https://wikimedia.de Keep up to date! Current news and exciting stories about Wikimedia, Wikipedia and Free Knowledge in our newsletter (in German): https://www.wikimedia.de/newsletter/ Wikimedia Deutschland – Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207.