I don't think the approach "we are going to see resistance anyway, so lets
make it a bigger change" has proven to be terribly helpful in the past year
or so.
These layout changes are hard for sure, but there are definitely ways to
bring people on board. The thing is, not every exciting change is
necessarily going to help everyone to the same extent, and it's hard to
convince a really diverse community. But there are a few tricks that we
should definitely keep using, that are nothing new to the developing
community: don't surprise (iterate and be public), try it out in a willing
community (check) and try to remain backward compatible (how long have we
supported the monobook skin now?).
I actually feel that a constant change is more helpful, because it gives
less of a 'now we have to fight to keep our ways' - it allows people to see
that they will like some changes, and dislike some others, but on a
balance, it'll improve for everyone. It's probably more time consuming
because it requires more consultation too, but I think it's worth it.
Lodewijk
On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 5:00 AM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <
galder158(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
Indeed! The FINAL stage of the changes is deeply
conservative and not a
change at all. It's a small lifting, but not a real change. We are now 10
years old, and with the new changes we will be 8 years old in a year,
instead of being 11 years old.
________________________________
From: Olga Vasileva <ovasileva(a)wikimedia.org>
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2020 1:53 PM
To: Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <galder158(a)hotmail.com>
Cc: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's discuss first features of Desktop
Improvements coming to Vector
Hi Vira, Ala'a, and Galder,
Thanks for your feedback - we’re really glad you’re enjoying the changes
we’ve made so far. I wanted to point out that this is not all! The
deployed changes are a part of a larger series of improvements that we will
be rolling out progressively over the next 1+ years. To see a list of the
other features we are planning on working on, please check out our project
page[1]. In addition, we believe that even after the project is complete,
there will still be work to do. We’d like to view this project as a new
baseline on which we can build new functionality that can improve both
reading and editing in the future.
Thanks again!
- Olga
[1]
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Reading/Web/Desktop_Improvements/Features
On Sun, Aug 23, 2020 at 8:06 PM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <
galder158@hotmail.com<mailto:galder158@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Thanks for bringing this topic!
At euwiki it has been some weeks we have experienced the new vector style,
and it has some great things: you can be sure about how width images will
take for any reader, you can create better galleries or even decide where
to insert an image to avoid sandwiching.
BUT...
I think that the changes (even when finishing) will be too short on what
we need (a real face change!) but it will annoy in the same amount to those
who don't want any change at all. So, we are losing an opportunity to go on
with big changes.
Best
Galder
________________________________
From: Wikimedia-l <wikimedia-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org<mailtomailto:
wikimedia-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org>> on behalf of Ala'a Najjar <
ala201041@hotmail.com<mailto:ala201041@hotmail.com>>
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2020 10:06 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org<mailtomailto:
wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>>
Cc: ovasileva@wikimedia.org<mailto:ovasileva@wikimedia.org> <
ovasileva@wikimedia.org<mailto:ovasileva@wikimedia.org>>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's discuss first features of Desktop
Improvements coming to Vector
Thanks for bring our attention to this Desktop Improvements.
I opened section about this on Arabic Wikipedia village pump
https://w.wiki/a9S, so users can try it, and maybe there feedback can
help Readers Web team.
Best,
Alaa
https://w.wiki/JNQ
-----Original Message-----
From: Wikimedia-l <wikimedia-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org<mailtomailto:
wikimedia-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org>> On Behalf Of Vira Motorko
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2020 1:01 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org<mailtomailto:
wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>>
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Let's discuss first features of Desktop
Improvements coming to Vector
Hi all,
I don't see any messages about the Desktop Improvements to wikimedia-l, so
I've decided to forward one from wikitech-l.
If I understand correctly, Desktop Improvements are changes to the desktop
version of the Vector skin, which are to be built throughout the next year,
features being added one by one. Several wikis already enjoy them by
default, and users of other wikis can find a respective tick in their
preferences to make new Vector visible.
Current features are said to not be permanent anyway but wouldn't it be
good for more people to see them while they are still work in progress?
See email text and links below.
*--*
*Vira Motorko // Віра Моторко*
mobile: +380667740499 | facebook: vira.motorko <
https://www.facebook.com/vira.motorko> | wikipedia: Ата <
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Ата>
---------- Forwarded message ---------
Від: Olga Vasileva <ovasileva@wikimedia.org<mailto:ovasileva@wikimedia.org
>
Date: ср, 5 серп. 2020 о 15:33
Subject: [Wikitech-l] First desktop improvements features now available on
early adopter wikis
----
Hi all,
We’re happy to announce that the first two of many changes focused on
improving the desktop experience of the Vector skin [1] have been released
as a user preference to all projects and as default on a set of early
adopter wikis: Basque, Farsi, French, and Hebrew Wikipedias, French
Wiktionary, and Portuguese Wikiversity.
Since its introduction in 2009, the Vector skin has changed little, while
the needs of our readers and editors have shifted significantly, as have
their expectations for a quality reading experience that focuses on the
content itself. Over the next year, the readers web team [2] will be
researching and building out improvements to the desktop experience based
on research and existing tools built by our communities.
Our goal is to create a more welcoming reading and editing experience -
something that feels familiar yet makes it easier and quicker to read,
edit, and perform common functionality.
Our first change, a collapsible sidebar, allows users to collapse the
lengthy menu on the left side of the page. We believe this change improves
usability by allowing people to focus on the content itself - on reading,
editing, or moderating.
Our second change introduces a maximum line width to our content on pages
such as article pages and discussion pages. Studies have shown that
limiting the width can lead to better retention of content, as well as a
decrease in eye strain
You can opt into these features by unchecking “legacy vector” from the
appearance tab of your user preferences.
We’d also like to note that these are the first of a series of changes
and, as such, their visual characteristics are not permanent. Also - there
might be bugs. If you notice an issue or would like to learn more about the
project itself - please head to our project page [3].
Thank you!
Olga
[1]
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Skin:Vector
[2]
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Readers/Web/Team
[3]
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Reading/Web/Desktop_Improvements
--
*Olga Vasileva* // Senior Product Manager // Web
https://wikimediafoundation.org/
*Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in
the sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment. Donate
<http://donate.wikimedia.org/>. *
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