But was there something in the editing. People should be free to say FREE TIBET in their user pages, for instance but can be really reasonable editors. In a way, we are also unbiased and neutral point of view is something we all look upto but can never trully achieve. Best Satdeep On Fri, Jul 2, 2021, 4:57 PM Peter Southwood <peter.southwood(a)telkomsa.net> wrote:

Friendly reminder: Slavery is against human rights. ________________________________ From: Yaroslav Blanter &lt;ymbalt(a)gmail.com&gt; Sent: Friday, July 2, 2021 2:22 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List &lt;wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org&gt; Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Blocking users for Palestinian flag I do not know. Whoever puts a userbox "I support slavery" on their user page on the English Wikipedia invites a fast block does not matter what their edits in the articles are. I do not think there is a universal answer to this question. Yaroslav On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 1:31 PM Satdeep Gill <satdeepgill@gmail.com<mailto:satdeepgill@gmail.com>> wrote: But was there something in the editing. People should be free to say FREE TIBET in their user pages, for instance but can be really reasonable editors. In a way, we are also unbiased and neutral point of view is something we all look upto but can never trully achieve. Best Satdeep On Fri, Jul 2, 2021, 4:57 PM Peter Southwood <peter.southwood@telkomsa.net<mailto:peter.southwood@telkomsa.net>> wrote: The problem is which political opinions would be acceptable on a user page, and who gets to decide this. We are expected to edit neutrally, so expressing a political opinion on a user page could be considered a declaration of partisanship which could extend to editing behaviour. Cheers, Peter From: Frederick Noronha [mailto:fredericknoronha@gmail.com<mailto:fredericknoronha@gmail.com>] Sent: 30 June 2021 00:57 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Blocking users for Palestinian flag Just seeking clarity: Is there anything wrong with expressing a political opinion on a userpage? A lot of our badges, flags, icons might have some or the other political history behind them, just that these are seen as more "normal" by today's standards. At one time, slavery too was considered quite legal. Can't this be discussed in the public domain? FN On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 at 03:34, Gereon Kalkuhl <gkalkuhl@freenet.de<mailto:gkalkuhl@freenet.de>> wrote: Dear 4nn1|2, Thank you for informing us about the incident. But to be clear: You write that it's about a Palestinian flag. Yet actually it's about a flag with a statement: free Palestine. There's a difference. And a member of the Persian Wikipedia removed the deletion request on Commons and kept the file on the same day. I'm not judging anything here, but please be more precise in your accusations. Thank you, Gereon Am 29.06.2021 um 20:34 schrieb Amir Sarabadani: If anyone is interested to know about this incident. Send me a private message and I can explain better. Best On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 8:17 PM 4nn1l2 <4nn1l2.wiki@gmail.com<mailto:4nn1l2.wiki@gmail.com>> wrote: Dear Wikimedians, Persian Wikipedia has reached a new level in their arbitrary and nonesense adminship. They have blocked me for placing a Palestinian flag on my userpage (of course they have already removed it from my userpage and you need to see a previous revision of my userpage). https://fa.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%DA%A9%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%A8%D8%B1… Another user has nominated the file for deletion on Commons! I am admin on Commons myself and I'm fed up with how fawiki is managed. They block users for the most friviolous reasons. What does this mean? Yours faithfully, User:4nn1l2 _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org<mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org… To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org<mailto:wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org> -- Amir (he/him) _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org<mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org… To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org<mailto:wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org<mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org… To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org<mailto:wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org> -- _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/ FN * फ्रेड्रिक नोरोन्या * فريدريك نورونيا‎ +91-9822122436 _/ See a different Goa here, via _/ https://youtube.com/c/frederickfnnoronha _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ [https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-green-avg-v1.png]&… Virus-free. www.avg.com<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_… _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org<mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org… To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org<mailto:wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org<mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org… To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org<mailto:wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org>

The Chinese issue: I don't see the Chinese community of any hope considering the mainland Chinese community is now basically a rotten Apple, with acts of stalking against Hong Kong and Taiwan editors, plus history revisionism being carried out within articles by mainland editors ans tolerated by admins of the same region, while, at the same time, manipulate local community discussion and opinion when such acts are brought into open discussion. Of course this won't get discussed as the scale is too large for even Hong Kong and Taurean editors to properly draft something for the wider movement to access (plus the Orwellian security law stomped on Hong Kong editors last year) (plus the hostility of those editors). ------------ Oh and back to the issue: in Chinese Wikipedia, there's a requirement to only state your opinion regarding one matter once if you want so, and some pro-CCP editors from China basically manipulate such thing and wrote one whole page of statements opposing things such as them opposing Hong Kong independence (once), another one about Taiwan independence (etc), highlighted in deep red and make it so appeaeant with other font modifiers. So basically, if you want to troll in user pages (not staying the original person doing so), there are numerous loopholes that, if editors are in good faith, would not have even thought of even if they are pretending to be violators. 💁 William. On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 at 21:36, Gnangarra &lt;gnangarra(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: -- ---------------------------- William Chan Education Programme Coordinator Wikimedia Community User Group Hong Kong User group : meta page <http://bit.ly/WMCUGHK> | facebook <http://fb.me/WikimediaUGHK> Personal : linkedin <https://www.linkedin.com/in/the23333/> | telegram <http://t.me/theonly23333> ----------------------------

This is problematic at very many levels: * Are we policing intent or actual wrongdoing -- i.e. bias in actual edits? * Is there something wrong in me aspiring for some political entity (which doesn't exist currently) or does it become wrong only when my bias actually shows in my editing? * If the former case, isn't this some form of Thought Policing? * Should we also not ban all forms of affiliations to religion, nationality, gender (her/his/its) or race and skin colour, as these also reflect some or the other bias? * Someone said slavery is against human rights. Well, I don't think this was always the situation, and that was precisely my point. Human standards keep changing.... It was a perfectly fine business at one point of time, as was selling opium to China. * Well, nobody would object to "Free Tibet", because that is seen as a politically correct cause in today's unipolar world. If the Chinese were at the helm of a unipolar world, I'm sure we would all be thinking differently. Especially me! Let's keep some space for diversity, please. As some person said, let a thousand flowers bloom! FN PS: Above all, those who want to whisper into our ears as to what's wrong with this user or his/her actions, can't we have this discussion under the glare of public scrutiny and accountability? On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 at 16:57, Peter Southwood &lt;peter.southwood(a)telkomsa.net&gt; wrote: On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 at 18:56, Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga < galder158(a)hotmail.com&gt; wrote: > Friendly reminder: Slavery is against human rights. > ------------------------------ > *From:* Yaroslav Blanter &lt;ymbalt(a)gmail.com&gt; > *Sent:* Friday, July 2, 2021 2:22 PM > *To:* Wikimedia Mailing List &lt;wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org&gt; > *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: Blocking users for Palestinian flag > > I do not know. Whoever puts a userbox "I support slavery" on their user > page on the English Wikipedia invites a fast block does not matter what > their edits in the articles are. > > I do not think there is a universal answer to this question. > > Yaroslav > > On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 1:31 PM Satdeep Gill &lt;satdeepgill(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > > But was there something in the editing. People should be free to say FREE > TIBET in their user pages, for instance but can be really reasonable > editors. > > In a way, we are also unbiased and neutral point of view is something we > all look upto but can never trully achieve. > > Best > Satdeep > > On Fri, Jul 2, 2021, 4:57 PM Peter Southwood &lt;peter.southwood(a)telkomsa.net&gt; > wrote: > > Can't this be discussed in the public domain? > > FN > > > > On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 at 03:34, Gereon Kalkuhl &lt;gkalkuhl(a)freenet.de&gt; wrote: > > Dear 4nn1|2, > > Thank you for informing us about the incident. But to be clear: You write > that it's about a Palestinian flag. Yet actually it's about a flag with a > statement: free Palestine. There's a difference. And a member of the > Persian Wikipedia removed the deletion request on Commons and kept the file > on the same day. I'm not judging anything here, but please be more precise > in your accusations. > > Thank you, > Gereon > > Am 29.06.2021 um 20:34 schrieb Amir Sarabadani: > > If anyone is interested to know about this incident. Send me a private > message and I can explain better. > > > > Best > > > > On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 8:17 PM 4nn1l2 &lt;4nn1l2.wiki(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > > Dear Wikimedians, > > > > Persian Wikipedia has reached a new level in their arbitrary and nonesense > adminship. They have blocked me for placing a Palestinian flag on my > userpage (of course they have already removed it from my userpage and you > need to see a previous revision of my userpage). > > > > > https://fa.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%DA%A9%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%A8%D8%B1… > > > > Another user has nominated the file for deletion on Commons! > > > > I am admin on Commons myself and I'm fed up with how fawiki is managed. > They block users for the most friviolous reasons. > > > > What does this mean? > > > > Yours faithfully, > > User:4nn1l2 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines > at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org… > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > > -- > > Amir (he/him) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org… > > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines > at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org… > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > -- > > > > _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ > > _/ FN * फ्रेड्रिक नोरोन्या * فريدريك نورونيا‎ +91-9822122436 > > _/ See a different Goa here, via > > _/ https://youtube.com/c/frederickfnnoronha > > _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ > > > > > > > <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> > > Virus-free. www.avg.com > <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines > at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org… > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines > at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org… > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines > at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org… > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org