Tell that to the many who were able to go to Wikimania on Foundation money, including myself. On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 11:09 PM, Andrew Whitworth <wknight8111(a)gmail.com> wrote:

On 05/03/2008, Dan Rosenthal <swatjester(a)gmail.com> wrote: Some being who, Dan - you? If you then why not just say that. Do we want WMF to be the "Red Cross for information"? Or just the glorified web-host? It seems to me the community has implicitly accepted the Red Cross route, because the Foundation has massively expanded and professionalised (not to mention moved across the country) without uproarious complaint. The glorified web-host wouldn't need to do these things. To say of Wikimedia "this is an internet site" is a big disservice to volunteers. "An internet site" is only the beginning of what it is. If you disagree that there are huge benefits from face-to-face meetings, that have no virtual substite, then I suppose nothing would convince you on that point.... but it is utterly remarkable and worthwhile and necessary. Not every month. But from time to time. I am grateful and pleased that the Foundation takes its commitment to being a worldwide organisation seriously. It really shows respect for the community. That's necessarily going to mean more travel than other not for profits that don't have such a global angle. And while the Foundation has a big travel budget, it's still a small fraction of the total budget, which is dominated by Acceptable Tech Stuff. Brianna -- They've just been waiting in a mountain for the right moment: http://modernthings.org/

Dan Rosenthal wrote: Perhaps you missed Phoebe's explanation, not very long ago, that the foundation did not use its general funds to pay for scholarships to attend Wikimania, but only administered the money of outside organizations donated specifically for that purpose? (I take it the foundation did cover travel of officers and staff directly, which is worth evaluating, but that doesn't seem to fit under this complaint.) --Michael Snow

On 05/03/2008, Dan Rosenthal &lt;swatjester(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Why would you say that? WMF grew from the community. Half or more of the board is from the community. Its vision and mission statements were developed in close consultation with the community. It makes (some) resolutions based on community prompting. So are they wishy-washy for consulting or arrogant and out-of-touch for not? If the foundation is going to be some sort of "red cross for You must be thinking of Amnesty International. The Red Cross is explicitly not about advocacy. I guess perhaps the Electronic Frontier Foundation is more the information advocacy equivalent of AI. Maybe there is some element of that appropriate to WMF too, given people's keenness for WMF to publicly denounce the proposed UK copyright extensions. But I think no answer would make you happy today. The Foundation wastes money on travel. But wait, they should be investigating and reporting on the situation of countries around the world. Sue has only been in the job a few months and they are only now gathering the staff and institutional experience to be a serious contender for actively pushing the Wikimedia vision. I think to say they should be doing things that similar organisations have achieved over 50 (AI) or 100 (RC) year histories is... impatient. It also means community, which means people, which is what I was thinking of. I was not thinking of Wikimania scholarships (and as Phoebe and Michael Snow pointed out, they money does not come from general funds). I was thinking that they accept Board members, & staff, worldwide. They think of their domain as the world and consequently act worldwide. Potential friends and allies are everywhere, not just the US. So the travel funds may be Board <-> Board Board <-> Staff Board/Staff <-> Donors Board/Staff <-> Chapters (I am not saying all of these even happen. I have no idea. But these are potential ones I could think of.) Board: France, US, Italy. [Does Domas live in Italy?] Staff: US, Germany, Australia, maybe other places. Donors: ... Chapters: much of Europe, Taiwan, Israel, Argentina, many in planning. If they gave the attitude "really, you should live in North America to apply for Board/staff", we would probably have significantly cheaper travel costs. But we would lose the benefits of the diversity we have. It's not just lip service. I can only imagine the dramatics that would ensue if travel was larger than tech stuff. :) regards, Brianna -- They've just been waiting in a mountain for the right moment: http://modernthings.org/

Thank you for your input, Florence, but for the sake of keeping this thread on-topic, would you like to also comment on the Foundation accepting sky miles as a donation? On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 9:18 AM, Florence Devouard &lt;Anthere9(a)yahoo.com&gt; wrote:

To be clear, you (and everyone else on scholarship) went last year on money that was donated specifically for Wikimania scholarships by outside organizations. This was administered and given out through the Foundation. :) We probably wouldn't have gotten those donations from those people for general-fund purposes. best, phoebe On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 8:12 PM, James Hare &lt;messedrocker(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: